About Fasting

Hidden In Him · Jul 12, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
pls the dog would eat its own vomit lol, or him for that matter

No, I'm actually serious. When I put down my black lab (who my current dog knew was dying), I came home without him, but I had half a hamburger patty from a fast food place that I had taken out of the bread. I handed to her and it was the first time she was seriously hesitant to eat anything I'd given to her. She didn't want to, and kept smelling it, and this was beef.

To each his own, LoL. I confess I didn't actually hear her thoughts. It's just had a sense about it.

Hidden In Him · Jul 12, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
@bbyrd009 and @Hidden In Him

I notice we all three posted more or less at the same time..hope you didn't miss post #55

I got to it.

(Post # 59 above).

Hidden In Him · Jul 12, 2018

amadeus said:
Whether or not we are sharper when we are fasting is not necessarily our answer, is it? When I have fasted I have become as you have, but this may have little or nothing to do with what God is doing for us or what we are doing for Him.

I am not certain we can earn our way to a closer walk with God, but God will still recognize a sincere effort to move closer to Him. We, however, unable to perceive the results directly by our natural senses or by our mind.

Our real purpose for fasting is what God will see...

I agree, Amadeus. This is very much in line with what I posted in #22 and #31.

amadeus · Jul 12, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
ah, this is why i cant tell when to stop, see, my point was not "pls eat even just a little something right now" wadr. i truly meant "when you break your fast." And for all i care it could be 80 days, i mean why not go for a record right
at least that is what we read, yes

Moses actually fasted 40 days twice. He did it the first time before breaking the stone tablets, but then a second time when he returned to get the second set of tablets engraved. This would have been 80 days total. I am not sure if he broke his fast between the two 40 day periods.

I have wondered about the significance of his two 40 day fasts as opposed to the single 40 day fast by Jesus.

@Jun2u gave us some food for thought on the subject, but this old man in body is not much on fasting from food any more. I do however fast from other things which seem to want to get between me and God.

bbyrd009 · Jul 12, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
@Hidden In Him @bbyrd009

If only on water, what about toxins which the body is kicking out ? we sure they can all be eliminated rather than accumulated somewhere in the body for it's protection against them?
Mark...Chris here knows what I am talking about from an inbox we shared.
As friend of ours was over weight, and wanted to glorify the Lord by a 40 day fast ..( he just loved his food) So he did the fast...he died about 6 months later...they said that it was for the poison which gathered together and formed a deadly tumour . He had surgery, but it was too late.
He called me from the hospital shortly before he died...he said...tell the Church that praise really does work! I have been praising the Lord continually through this pain, praise works better than painkillers. I will be praising my way into the kingdom.

This to me is a threat to health ( what happens to the toxins) after being on a long fast!

Can I ask Why 40 days? That is a very long time.
Yes, it bothers me and I worry...
Maybe God cover you and send you angels at this time.

View attachment 3082

well you should be detoxing too, but my guess is that guy had a lymph or some other problem that was not addressed. Plus, he was fasting for health, not spiritual gain so much imo. Two different kinds of fasts. You're s'posed to pee the toxins out, so he needed his liver and kidneys to be functioning, should have been on honey/lemon prolly, for that matter a Tblspn of honey--raw honey i mean, not groc store honey--before bed is great for anyone, your liver functions while you sleep.

Plenty more true horror stories about attempted "40 day" fasts available on google, but it should be apparent that some vanity is going on there imo. Jesus did not command anyone to go without food for 40 days. He did make a bunch of other commands that fasters don't wanna go near. 1+1=2

Truth · Jul 12, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
There is a theory that we hear Him more, but I don't buy it. It was defined as "humbling oneself" in the OT, and this is its primary purpose. Through subjection of the flesh, we humble ourselves, becoming more pleasing to God. When we put the flesh down, we position ourselves to be lifted up in the Spirit by God. But when we're proud in the flesh, this largely disqualifies us from it because we would take glory unto ourselves if God did so. That's why you see so much self-glorification and powerlessness in Christian leadership these days. Pride instead of humility = fleshliness, not spirituality.

Yes, after this Thread started,I began to look up Scripture that supports Fasting, then I started to try to think of what would be the benefits!
The first thin that came to mind, was putting the flesh under subjection, so I believe that you are right! I believe that it is one of many ways to become contrite and giving over to the Spirit!

amadeus · Jul 12, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
I agree, Amadeus. This is very much in line with what I posted in #22 and #31.

Thanks for mentioning the post numbers. I scanned #22 but I had missed #31 altogether. Sounds like we're not that far apart on this. God does know what He is doing even when and if we do not.

bbyrd009 · Jul 12, 2018

"

The masculine and feminine noun ארבע ('arba'), representing the cardinal number four, or rather a small quantity more than 3 (Genesis 2:10). The regular plural of this word, ארבעים ('arba'im) is usually explained to mean forty, but there's no real way of verifying this. In the Biblical narrative the word ארבעים ('arba'im) is most often used to describe a symbolic time span, such as the forty days it rained on Noah's Ark (Genesis 7:4), or the forty days Moses was on the mountain with the Lord, twice (Deuteronomy 9:9, 9:18). Israel wandered in the wilderness for forty years (Deuteronomy 2:7); Joshua was forty when Moses sent him out to spy (Joshua 14:7), and he stayed away forty days (Numbers 13:25). Moses died when he had lived three times forty years (Deuteronomy 34:7). And four of the seventeen judges held office for "precisely" forty years — namely Othniel (Judges 3:11), Deborah (Judges 5:31), Gideon (Judges 8:28) and Eli (1 Samuel 4:18). And right before the rise of judge Samson, Israel was subdued by the Philistines for "precisely" forty years (Judges 13:1). The chronology of the Book of Judges adds to 400 years, which is much longer than the time between the end of the Exodus and the beginning of the monarchy (about two centuries)..."
http://www.abarim-publications.com/Dictionary/r/r-b-ay.html#.W0eS6dJKiUk

"
Horeb (a.k.a. Sinai, and the Mountain of God) is the mountain where Moses fasts for two times forty days back to back, as he receives the Law (Exodus 3:1). Later Elijah the Tishbite also spends forty days fasting on Horeb (1 Kings 19:8), after which he has his famous conversation with God in the cave (1 Kings 19:9-18).

The name Horeb is spelled חורב only in Exodus 33:6..."
http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Horeb.html#.W0eUodJKiUk

Hidden In Him · Jul 12, 2018

Jun2u said:
@ByGrace - has directed everyone to the correct Scripture reference concerning fasting, but alas, no one person who posted here have understood the gist of what God has in view concerning fasting.

God is not interested in abstaining from food, to abstain from food has no spiritual value whatsoever.

God, through Isaiah, speaks of witnessing in Isaiah 58!

Actually, I wasn't going to give "ByGrace" a hard time over it, but Isaiah 58 is notoriously misinterpreted by nearly everyone who comments on it. It was not a command NOT to fast physically or this would fly directly in the face of Jesus commanding the disciples to fast physically (Matthew 16:6), of Paul fasting often (2 Corinthians 11:27, 2 Corinthians 6:5), of the prophets in Antioch fasting before commissioning Paul and Barnabas (Acts 13:2-3), and worst of all it would make our Lord Himself out to be doing something that went entirely against His own supposed "word."

Unless of course Jesus, Paul, and the prophets at Antioch didn't actually physically fast. But I find the position dubious at best.

For anyone would like an accurate interpretation on Isaiah 58 in light of scripture, I can write something up, but only if anyone is truly interested. It's a long passage.

Truth · Jul 12, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
@Hidden In Him @bbyrd009

If only on water, what about toxins which the body is kicking out ? Are we sure they can all be eliminated rather than accumulated somewhere in the body for it's protection against them?

Mark...Chris here ( HIH) knows what I am talking about from an inbox we shared.
As friend of ours was over weight, and wanted to glorify the Lord by a 40 day fast ..( he just loved his food) So he did the fast...he died about 6 months later...they said that it was for the poison which gathered together and formed a deadly tumour . He had surgery, but it was too late.

He called me from the hospital shortly before he died...he said...tell the Church that praise really does work! I have been praising the Lord continually through this pain, praise works better than painkillers. I will be praising my way into the kingdom.

This to me is a threat to health ( what happens to the toxins) after being on a long fast!

Can I ask Why 40 days? That is a very long time.
@Iforrest mentioned Moses fast of 40. A little different, he did not 'work' change a tire or anything...he was up the mountain in the glory cloud with God face to face.
Somewhat different.
Yes, it bothers me ....and I do worry...
Maybe God cover you and send you angels at this time.

View attachment 3082

Yes Moses was IN the very presence of God, The giver and the sustain-er of all LIFE. I think being in the presence Of Glory would keep anyone from Harm, no matter what!

Hidden In Him · Jul 12, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
"

The masculine and feminine noun ארבע ('arba'), representing the cardinal number four, or rather a small quantity more than 3 (Genesis 2:10). The regular plural of this word, ארבעים ('arba'im) is usually explained to mean forty, but there's no real way of verifying this. In the Biblical narrative the word ארבעים ('arba'im) is most often used to describe a symbolic time span, such as the forty days it rained on Noah's Ark (Genesis 7:4), or the forty days Moses was on the mountain with the Lord, twice (Deuteronomy 9:9, 9:18). Israel wandered in the wilderness for forty years (Deuteronomy 2:7); Joshua was forty when Moses sent him out to spy (Joshua 14:7), and he stayed away forty days (Numbers 13:25). Moses died when he had lived three times forty years (Deuteronomy 34:7). And four of the seventeen judges held office for "precisely" forty years — namely Othniel (Judges 3:11), Deborah (Judges 5:31), Gideon (Judges 8:28) and Eli (1 Samuel 4:18). And right before the rise of judge Samson, Israel was subdued by the Philistines for "precisely" forty years (Judges 13:1). The chronology of the Book of Judges adds to 400 years, which is much longer than the time between the end of the Exodus and the beginning of the monarchy (about two centuries)..."

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Dictionary/r/r-b-ay.html#.W0eS6dJKiUk

Ok... that's certainly interesting where the use of the Hebrew ארבעים is concerned, but there is no ambiguity about the Greek word τεσσεράκοντα. It is translated universally as "forty" every time in the NT, and no other meaning is supported anywhere in classical Greek. Your post would take a tremdous amount of work to unpack, and I'm not up for taking that bait today, LoL. Maybe some other time, however.

Hidden In Him · Jul 12, 2018

Truth said:
Yes Moses was IN the very presence of God, The giver and the sustain-er of all LIFE. I think being in the presence Of Glory would keep anyone from Harm, no matter what!

Now here's a good point. Jesus was also fresh from having the Spirit descend upon Him like a dove when he entered into His fast. This is why I believe it is not intended by God to happen in a believer's life without the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. If not, it ends up being an attempt in the flesh, and nearly always an exercise in futility.

Hidden In Him · Jul 12, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
Plenty more true horror stories about attempted "40 day" fasts available on google, but it should be apparent that some vanity is going on there imo.

Reading the horror stories might be helpful. I may need to look that up. I did find one guy who mentioned running into some trouble at one point, and had to take some vitamin C to restore his system... forget how he described it, but this is him right here:

bbyrd009 said:
Jesus did not command anyone to go without food for 40 days.

Now this is actually true, and I pondered over it for some time until coming to the following conclusion: As I've stated in other posts, the purpose of fasting in general is that there be "less of me and more of Him," and "less of the flesh, and more of the Spirit." But to what extent we commit to this depends on each believer. It is NOT a requirement for salvation. It is merely a question of to what extent does a believer desire to see the Lord Jesus Christ manifest Himself through him and in him. I believe it is for this reason that the teaching is hidden from view, so as not to be a discouragement to those who would choke on such a hard teaching. If I had read these posts thirty years ago that I myself am now writing, I might have choked on them as well.

lforrest · Jul 12, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
Now here's a good point. Jesus was also fresh from having the Spirit descend upon Him like a dove when he entered into His fast. This is why I believe it is not intended by God to happen in a believer's life without the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. If not, it ends up being an attempt in the flesh, and nearly always an exercise in futility.

About Jesus, isn't it interesting during his fast in the wilderness he was hungry, instead of thirsty. I always assumed he fasted the same as moses and didn't drink.

Hidden In Him · Jul 12, 2018

lforrest said:
About Jesus, isn't it interesting during his fast in the wilderness he was hungry, instead of thirsty. I always assumed he fasted the same as moses and didn't drink.

Yes, and he was in the desert. I once fasted for 5 days without water or food, but I now consider that to be very unhealthy. Toxins need to be cleaned out of the system, which is one of the benefits along with losing weight (I started at 225 lbs., which is way overweight for someone who is only 5'10").

amadeus · Jul 12, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
Now here's a good point. Jesus was also fresh from having the Spirit descend upon Him like a dove when he entered into His fast. This is why I believe it is not intended by God to happen in a believer's life without the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. If not, it ends up being an attempt in the flesh, and nearly always an exercise in futility.

This is more of the explanation I was looking for in this. Fasting for long periods of time with no intake of food or water is a physical impossibility for man alone beyond a certain definitely limited amount of time. The food can be skipped for a very long time as long as the water is not stopped, but when we shut down both could any man live for 40 days without help from God? I have no plan to try it.

When God really leads us to do something and it is a something that for carnal man is impossible, will God not make up the difference to accomplish His will?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

So if we are led by the Holy Spirit and we are obedient to the that leading what is impossible for us? This is certainly what we see in Moses when he fasted his 40 x 2 days

Hidden In Him · Jul 12, 2018

amadeus said:
When God really leads us to do something and it is a something that for carnal man is impossible, will God not make up the difference to accomplish His will?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

So if we are led by the Holy Spirit and we are obedient to that leading, what is impossible for us? This is certainly what we see in Moses when he fasted his 40 x 2 days

Yes, and there is a connection between Moses and Jesus, a prophetic parallel. Just as Moses descended from the mountain, so did Jesus descend from the Father. Just as the glory rested upon Moses' face such that they could not bear to look upon him, so too was Jesus transfigured on the mountain. And they both came delivering God's word to His people.

Truly powerful words coming from God are always accompanied by signs and wonders following, and this is possibly the strongest parallel of all.

amadeus · Jul 12, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
Yes, and there is a connection between Moses and Jesus, a prophetic parallel. Just as Moses descended from the mountain, so did Jesus descend from the Father. Just as the glory rested upon Moses' face such that they could not bear to look upon him, so too was Jesus transfigured on the mountain. And they both came delivering God's word to His people.

Truly powerful words coming from God are always accompanied by signs and wonders following, and this is possibly the strongest parallel of all.

Without having done a lot of active searching for them I have come across many types and shadows in the OT with regard to the NT and in particular to Jesus... who is the real thing. I wonder if the double fasting by Moses is somehow related to the double blessings of the first born as we see in Joseph son of Jacob and again in Elisha the successor of Elijah.

Hidden In Him · Jul 12, 2018

amadeus said:
Moses actually fasted 40 days twice. He did it the first time before breaking the stone tablets, but then a second time when he returned to get the second set of tablets engraved. This would have been 80 days total. I am not sure if he broke his fast between the two 40 day periods.

Btw, I just saw this (very active thread). This is interesting. I've never noticed it before. If you could, please provide me with the two passages describing each.

amadeus said:
@Jun2u gave us some food for thought on the subject, but this old man in body is not much on fasting from food any more. I do however fast from other things which seem to want to get between me and God.

I do wonder about fasting in latter years. I fully intend on getting into better shape than I've ever been in from here on out. When I get back to strength, I'm going back to a strong exercise routine I was developing, and I intend on eating healthy. If I go back and forth from fasting to eating like I expect, it will be more of the same; coming down in weight, and then becoming physically fit. The intention is to live as long as possible in service to the Lord.

But I will have to keep my expectations open where doing all this in my 70s and 80s is concerned. I'm not sure how that would go, and if the Lord does not ordain it then I would have no business entertaining the idea any longer.

bbyrd009 · Jul 12, 2018

lforrest said:
About Jesus, isn't it interesting during his fast in the wilderness he was hungry, instead of thirsty. I always assumed he fasted the same as moses and didn't drink.

also, we at least read that he was not hungry until after the fast, although i'm not sure what to make of that,
"...and when they were ended, he afterward hungered."

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