farouk
Well-Known Member
Good to keep focused on Him...Revelation 3:20
[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
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Good to keep focused on Him...Revelation 3:20
[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Billy Graham censored the views? I wonder if that's why my neighbor disliked him so much. She wasn't a Christian but she said he was always for the rich.
If you invited me on a round the world vacation and I said I couldn't because "70 weeks are scheduled to get my medical degree"When we replace common sense with spiritual sense, it all comes together.
Do you know what the key is to unlocking this prophecy?
Dan 9:24, and most of which will be fulfilled in the future.
1. Seventy weeks are determined = 490 years
2. upon thy people = the Jews
3.and upon thy holy city = Jerusalem
4. to finish the transgression = terminate the desecration of Jerusalem and the temple
5. and to make an end of sins = terminate sinfulness within Israel, through its redemption and restoration
6. and to make reconciliation for iniquity = to unify the kingdoms of Judah and Israel as one Millennial kingdom under David and Christ
7. and to bring in everlasting righteousness = upon earth through the New Heavens and the New Earth after the Millennium
8. and to seal up the vision and prophecy = to fulfill all the prophecies in Scripture regarding Christ and the Kingdom of God
9. and to anoint the most Holy = to establish a pure and holy eternal temple in Jerusalem
I don't define it at all because no gap - whether it is made up of missing time or of a vacuum devoid of everything including time - is inserted between the 69th and 70th Week.Wait...
Sounds like you are defining GAP as a number of missing years?
Is that correct?
If not, could you define what GAP means to you?
Happy New Year,
Glory to God,
Taken
Jesus is indeed at the door. Whether or not the Rapture will be before or during the tribulation, is unclear. Nevertheless, people need to get the wrinkles, spots and blemishes out of their garments to be accounted worthy to escape what is coming; Jesus is coming for a holy and glorious Bride. Jesus is not going to marry a whore.
Ephesians 5
[25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;[26] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,[27] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
How is it that people can't recognize the signs of the times!??? Everything that Jesus talked about is unfolding before our eyes! Repent of your unbelief!
I don't see the church in the Old Testament at all...
When we replace common sense with spiritual sense, it all comes together.
Oh yes I agree about the elect faithful as in Hebrews 11!The Church, named as such, no. But the elect? Sure...just follow Abraham's line down, for starters. Every OT believer who looked to God in faith to uphold his original promise to Adam and Eve...to bring forth one to crush the head of the serpant, was found to have saving faith. (Galatians 3:6; Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:9; Romans 4:21–22; Romans 4:3)
They may not have known exactly what that promise would look like, but that's sort of the nature of faith, isn't it? We are lucky today, in that we can look back and know that it is Christ Jesus that our faith rests in.
And I think that's one of the places they get into trouble...not recognizing the when we reach the NT, Paul teaches us to look back and say, "those promises God made to Abraham, he made them to Christ and to Abrahams spiritual children...the elect."Oh yes I agree about the elect faithful as in Hebrews 11!
Dispensational Bible students do of course insist that properly speaking the church - the revealed mystery of which Ephesians 1 speaks of, is not revealed as an entity in the Old Testament.
Just want to add it’s a selfish doctrine, there’s a world full of lost souls waiting for the light of Christ to shine in there hearts. This whole group is saying Lord please take us out of our suffering as quick as possible, can it not be seen that through our sufferings and pain being overcome in the present world people come to the knowledge of Christ. I would ask Lord give us STRENGTH to endure your reproach, but he did say men would be lovers of themselves.And I think that's one of the places they get into trouble...not recognizing the when we reach the NT, Paul teaches us to look back and say, "those promises God made to Abraham, he made them to Christ and to Abrahams spiritual children...the elect."
I know Dispensationalists have a really hard time with this, but its biblical.
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. -Galatians 3:16
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. -Romans 9:6–8
The Remnant of Israel
I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. -Romans 11:1–5
When you add to these verses those that talk about the elect becoming one people in Christ...there no longer being Jew or Gentile believers...only those who believe in Jesus. As well as the verses that speak of there only being one way to God...through faith in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross....I'm just unsure where the Dispensationalists find their doctrine on separating out the Jewish nation and putting them back into the swing of temple building and sacrificing. Christ came to do away with those things. They were the types and shadows. Why would God ask people to go back to them?
Just want to add it’s a selfish doctrine, there’s a world full of lost souls waiting for the light of Christ to shine in there hearts. This whole group is saying Lord please take us out of our suffering as quick as possible, can it not be seen that through our sufferings and pain being overcome in the present world people come to the knowledge of Christ. I would ask Lord give us STRENGTH to endure your reproach, but he did say men would be lovers of themselves.
It’s been going on for millennia. However I can’t even find a church to attend without 50% of the men and women carrying guns, so concerned about what men will do to their bodies. Do you think the apostles carried weapons?To be fair to them, I think they see it as them being removed before God pours HIS wrath out on the world. However...I can't see any evidence, biblically, to support that. Firstly, every verse I read that talks of God "keeping us from the wrath to come" seems written in the context of final judgement, not in a time of tribulation here on earth. Secondly, the "Great Tribulation", if we assume that it will indeed happen as they say it will, will see most persecution of believers done by unbelievers...which we have now, and yes...they must persevere. In fact, they are given rewards in heaven for persevering. Also...one must ask the question...in this "Great Tribulation", the 'wrath' that God is supposingly pouring out on the whole world, they are things like natural disasters. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but...do we not have those very things now? Are Christians not perishing in those things now as well? Is God rescuing them from those things? He undoubtably could, as he has control over everything.
So...I just find one after another inconsistency with the Dispensational system.
In John 16 there is the tribulation principle, while clearly in Matthew 24 the great tribulation is a unique event.To be fair to them, I think they see it as them being removed before God pours HIS wrath out on the world. However...I can't see any evidence, biblically, to support that. Firstly, every verse I read that talks of God "keeping us from the wrath to come" seems written in the context of final judgement, not in a time of tribulation here on earth. Secondly, the "Great Tribulation", if we assume that it will indeed happen as they say it will, will see most persecution of believers done by unbelievers...which we have now, and yes...they must persevere. In fact, they are given rewards in heaven for persevering. Also...one must ask the question...in this "Great Tribulation", the 'wrath' that God is supposingly pouring out on the whole world, they are things like natural disasters. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but...do we not have those very things now? Are Christians not perishing in those things now as well? Is God rescuing them from those things? He undoubtably could, as he has control over everything.
So...I just find one after another inconsistency with the Dispensational system.
Romans 8:35-36 KJVIn John 16 there is the tribulation principle, while clearly in Matthew 24 the great tribulation is a unique event.
Romans 8:35-36 KJV
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
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ive already been raptured out in ChristRomans 8:35-36 KJV
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
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LOL! Move to Australia. We aren't even allowed to carry pepper spray.It’s been going on for millennia. However I can’t even find a church to attend without 50% of the men and women carrying guns, so concerned about what men will do to their bodies. Do you think the apostles carried weapons?
In John 16 there is the tribulation principle, while clearly in Matthew 24 the great tribulation is a unique event.
In 1 Thessalonians 5.9, Paul, who has just been speaking about the day of the Lord - important as an earthly event in the Old Testament where the church is not in view - says: 'For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ'.The Tribulation spoken of in Matt 24 is clearly the destruction of the Temple. For many reasons that I can get into if you want.
In John 16 it talks of general tribulation, and that is something everyone agrees that we have on a daily basis.
I'm not even saying that tribulation won't increase towards the end...I think the bible indicates it will. What I am saying is that I don't think, biblically, it can be proven that there will be a time period where the Church must be removed so as to avoid God's wrath. We escape God's wrath in Christ.
If God choses to deal with Israel as a nation again, there is nothing in the bible that mandates that it must be done with the Church gone. After all, he's focused on us just fine while they've been here.
Too many holes...too many questions...too many assumptions made that scripture just doesn't say.
I don't define it at all because no gap - whether it is made up of missing time or of a vacuum devoid of everything including time - is inserted between the 69th and 70th Week.