Satan's Casting Out of Revelation 12 Is Still Future?

[Davy]

Revelation 12:7-9 speaks of a war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels. The result is that Satan and his angels are cast down to this earth. Men's doctrines preach different times for when that event happens, or happened.

1. some preach that happened back when Satan first rebelled against God. That would have to mean before the foundation of this present world, i.e., prior to Adam and Eve, because by the time Satan as "that old serpent" shows up in God's Eden to tempt Eve, he was already in his role as the adversary, showing that he had already fallen.

2. some instead preach that Satan was cast out at Christ's crucifixion, basing it on what Jesus said in John 12...
John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now the prince of this world will be cast out.
WEB


However, many appear to miss 2 other related Bible Scriptures that relate to the Revelation 12:7-9 war and casting down to this earth. One is the Daniel 12:1 Scripture about Archangel Michael will "stand up"...

Dan 12:1
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV

That Daniel 12:1 verse is a type of short summary of 3 main events for the END. The first is Archangel Michael standing up, then the coming of the "great tribulation" Jesus warned us about for the END, for that is what that 'time of trouble' is about per Matthew 24:21. And the third is the time of deliverance of the faithful saints after that tribulation by Lord Jesus Christ's return.


The 2nd related Scripture many miss is when Apostle Paul mentioned about one who does the 'withholding' of the "man of sin" per 2 Thessalonians 2...

2 Thess 2:6-9
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
KJV


Actually there is one more related Scripture, towards the end of the Daniel 10 chapter points to Archangel Michael being the one who is withholding the "prince of Persia" (put for Satan there), along with the angel speaking to Daniel.

Dan 10:20-21
20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
KJV


So WHEN... truely, is the Revelation 12:7-9 casting out of Satan and his angels really for??

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Revelation 12:7-9 speaks of a war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels. The result is that Satan and his angels are cast down to this earth. Men's doctrines preach different times for when that event happens, or happened.

1. some preach that happened back when Satan first rebelled against God. That would have to mean before the foundation of this present world, i.e., prior to Adam and Eve, because by the time Satan as "that old serpent" shows up in God's Eden to tempt Eve, he was already in his role as the adversary, showing that he had already fallen.

2. some instead preach that Satan was cast out at Christ's crucifixion, basing it on what Jesus said in John 12...
John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now the prince of this world will be cast out.
WEB


However, many appear to miss 2 other related Bible Scriptures that relate to the Revelation 12:7-9 war and casting down to this earth. One is the Daniel 12:1 Scripture about Archangel Michael will "stand up"...

Dan 12:1
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV

That Daniel 12:1 verse is a type of short summary of 3 main events for the END. The first is Archangel Michael standing up, then the coming of the "great tribulation" Jesus warned us about for the END, for that is what that 'time of trouble' is about per Matthew 24:21. And the third is the time of deliverance of the faithful saints after that tribulation by Lord Jesus Christ's return.


The 2nd related Scripture many miss is when Apostle Paul mentioned about one who does the 'withholding' of the "man of sin" per 2 Thessalonians 2...

2 Thess 2:6-9
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
KJV


Actually there is one more related Scripture, towards the end of the Daniel 10 chapter points to Archangel Michael being the one who is withholding the "prince of Persia" (put for Satan there), along with the angel speaking to Daniel.

Dan 10:20-21
20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
KJV


So WHEN... truely, is the Revelation 12:7-9 casting out of Satan and his angels really for??

Rev. 12: Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

I Cor. 2:6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God [c]ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

So, that happened between when Christ was resurrected from the dead and Pentecost.

1 John 3:8-9 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

We are Christ's kingdom. We receive salvation now. We are Christ's temple. We who are born again of the Spirit of Christ that is... (Not all who call Jesus Lord actually have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.)

1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Ephesians 6:
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [c]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints.

Davy, this is one my favorite verses and the way we fight Satan here on earth:
1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

"keeps himself" armored.

 

[Davy]

Rev. 12: Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

I Cor. 2:6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God [c]ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

So, that happened between when Christ was resurrected from the dead and Pentecost.

One thing is for sure, it could not have happened back at Satan's original rebellion prior to Adam and Eve, because Jesus had not been born in the flesh back then. So that still leaves either a casting out at the cross, or... another possibility which I won't reveal just yet.

1 John 3:8-9 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

We are Christ's kingdom. We receive salvation now. We are Christ's temple. We who are born again of the Spirit of Christ that is... (Not all who call Jesus Lord actually have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.)

1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Ephesians 6:
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [c]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints.

Davy, this is one my favorite verses and the way we fight Satan here on earth:
1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

"keeps himself" armored.

That is definitely true in the sense of The Spirit for right now, since Lord Jesus died on the cross, but that is only about His spiritual Kingdom for today. Per His Word there still will be a literal physical Kingdom to come here on earth in the future at His return, which also is written (Rev.19; 20; Ezekiel 40 - 47, Zechariah 14, etc.).

And yep, I like Paul's put on the whole armor of God idea also.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Revelation 12:7-9 speaks of a war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels. The result is that Satan and his angels are cast down to this earth. Men's doctrines preach different times for when that event happens, or happened.

1. some preach that happened back when Satan first rebelled against God. That would have to mean before the foundation of this present world, i.e., prior to Adam and Eve, because by the time Satan as "that old serpent" shows up in God's Eden to tempt Eve, he was already in his role as the adversary, showing that he had already fallen.

2. some instead preach that Satan was cast out at Christ's crucifixion, basing it on what Jesus said in John 12...
John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now the prince of this world will be cast out.
WEB

This is one of those very good questions that I absolutely can't give a decent answer to. I wish I could supply an itinerary of Satan's whereabouts from the beginning of Creation until now--I can't. Some time after Creation he fell, it seems--I'm assuming he was a part of the present Creation and not some earlier Creation.

So he was already fallen when he tempted Adam and Eve. Of course, that may itself have been the act of his fall, in tempting Man. But that isn't said. It appears to me that Satan had already fallen.

So when we get to Job, possibly the oldest book in the Bible, angels appear before God, and along with them Satan. He is there to challenge God. And this was a time-consuming process of testing Job's faithfulness to God. I would have to assume that even though Satan "lost his bet," he continued to appear before God in heaven, challenging His word.

By the time of Jesus, Satan is still active on earth, tempting Jesus. And demons under him are possessing Israelites who have fallen into gross sins. They are cast out as an act of redemption. But this does not end Satan's possession of people through his demons. Even after the cross, Paul is seen casting out demons.

So as much as I believe Satan was defeated, in Job's time and at the cross, Satan remains active, as a devouring lion, we are told. He is still "prince of this world," ruling from a heavenly vantage point. He is still appearing with the angels before God, trying to win some kind of war against God's word.

Revelation speaks of the time when this actually comes to pass that Satan is completely defeated. It is portrayed as something that's already happened. That is typical of apocalyptic language, stating things future as if they are happening now, or even as if they happened in the past. I think Satan's ultimate defeat happens at the Battle of Armageddon, at Christ's 2nd Coming.

Even then there is one more battle at the end of the Millennium. But thanks for your work on this. We do need to consider all of the verses. I have found that God does not like to give too many references to Satan, just as under the Law Israel was advised not to spend time with the occult. It is a dangerous territory, though we must address it. Thanks again.

 

[Davy]

This is one of those very good questions that I absolutely can't give a decent answer to. I wish I could supply an itinerary of Satan's whereabouts from the beginning of Creation until now--I can't. Some time after Creation he fell, it seems--I'm assuming he was a part of the present Creation and not some earlier Creation.

I know it's a difficult subject for many, and I think that is because most Churches simply will not go into this subject much, if at all. But it is a very important matter, especially for the times we are in now so close to the end.

So he was already fallen when he tempted Adam and Eve. Of course, that may itself have been the act of his fall, in tempting Man. But that isn't said. It appears to me that Satan had already fallen.

Satan tempting Eve does reveal that he was already in his role as Adversary, that he at sometime before had already fallen.

Although we are not shown when he fell in those early Genesis chapters, it is suggested in other Bible chapters, like Ezekiel 28 and 31, but in parable form. In Isaiah 30:31-33, with God using "the Assyrian" as a Type for Satan, we are shown that the future "lake of fire" (Tophet) has already been prepared for his destruction. Lord Jesus also revealed that in Matthew 25:41. In 1 John 3:8 he said the devil sinned from the beginning, and for this reason Christ was manifest to destroy the works of the devil. And in Hebrews 2:14, we learn that the power of death has been assigned to Satan because of his sin.

All that points to Satan as having done the very first sin, and it is what began the concept of 'death', which is why he has been given the power of death. In the Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 chapters, we are actually shown what Satan's sin in the beginning was about; Satan coveted God's Throne which was his job to guard. That could not have happened in the days of Adam and Eve, so it means his rebellion had to have been before Adam.

Then there's the matter of the parable of Ezekiel 28 when it mentions how God originally created Satan "perfect in his ways", before he fell. What Bible Scripture do we have about that time when Satan was perfect in following God, and was at God's Altar like it also says there? That certainly was not during the time of Adam.

Then there's the matter of the earlier Revelation 12:3-4 Scripture which reveals a 'previous' beast system back when he drew a third of the angels ("stars") to earth in rebellion with him. That earlier beast system we are shown had ten horns, seven heads, but only "seven" crowns. The beast system of Rev.13:1 is to have "ten" crowns. I missed that distinction for a long time. What it suggests is that when Satan first rebelled and fell, with one third of the angels, that it involved a beast system on earth similar to one for the end of this world in Rev.13:1-2. So how far before Adam's day did that happen? A very disciplined look at the Ezekiel 31 parable reveals this also about the idea of Satan being over "great nations" on earth too back before he first rebelled.

(I ain't suggesting any such idea as a pre-Adamic race or anything like that. But I do believe there was a previous world earth age prior to the one God created with Adam, and I believe that previous earth age was when Satan was perfect originally in serving God, like Ezekiel 28 points to, and is also when he was over 'great nations' on earth like Ezekiel 31 points to, but involving angels living on earth.)

So when we get to Job, possibly the oldest book in the Bible, angels appear before God, and along with them Satan. He is there to challenge God. And this was a time-consuming process of testing Job's faithfulness to God. I would have to assume that even though Satan "lost his bet," he continued to appear before God in heaven, challenging His word.

Yeah, and Revelation 12:10 reveals only when those events there happen will his appearing before God's Throne to accuse us be over. But I do not believe that time has come yet; he is still allowed in Heaven to accuse us today. He can go back and forth still today.

By the time of Jesus, Satan is still active on earth, tempting Jesus. And demons under him are possessing Israelites who have fallen into gross sins. They are cast out as an act of redemption. But this does not end Satan's possession of people through his demons. Even after the cross, Paul is seen casting out demons.

So as much as I believe Satan was defeated, in Job's time and at the cross, Satan remains active, as a devouring lion, we are told. He is still "prince of this world," ruling from a heavenly vantage point. He is still appearing with the angels before God, trying to win some kind of war against God's word.

Revelation speaks of the time when this actually comes to pass that Satan is completely defeated. It is portrayed as something that's already happened. That is typical of apocalyptic language, stating things future as if they are happening now, or even as if they happened in the past. I think Satan's ultimate defeat happens at the Battle of Armageddon, at Christ's 2nd Coming.

Even then there is one more battle at the end of the Millennium. But thanks for your work on this. We do need to consider all of the verses. I have found that God does not like to give too many references to Satan, just as under the Law Israel was advised not to spend time with the occult. It is a dangerous territory, though we must address it. Thanks again.

Certainly... he is still at work on earth today.

The Isaiah 30:31-33 and Matthew 25:41 declarations reveal that Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire". And Lord Jesus was born in the flesh in this world specifically to defeat the devil, and death, for us, by His sacrifice on the cross. If one pays attention from the beginning in Genesis all the way through to the time of Christ's 1st coming, they will see a pattern of Satan attempting to kill the 'seed' that Jesus would be born through, like trying to prevent Christ's birth and crucifixion. So I believe that suggests that Satan well knew what Lord Jesus would accomplish on the cross. Yet Christ's defeating Satan and death on His cross has sealed Satan's fate, but the time of Satan's sentencing is not yet today, and actually not until Satan is cast into the future "lake of fire" like you showed. Ezekiel 28:18 even reveals a fire will turn Satan to ashes upon the earth in sight of all those who see him.

Something else to think about; the mention of the Rev.12 war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels, vs. Satan and his angels, is linked with the Daniel 12:1 verse when Archangel Michael stands up, and then the time of trouble that has never been before begins (i.e., the great tribulation, for Jesus linked to that in Matthew 24:21). That is another Biblical reason why I believe the Rev.12 war in Heaven has not happened yet today.

 

[dev553344]

Revelation 12:7-9 speaks of a war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels. The result is that Satan and his angels are cast down to this earth. Men's doctrines preach different times for when that event happens, or happened.

1. some preach that happened back when Satan first rebelled against God. That would have to mean before the foundation of this present world, i.e., prior to Adam and Eve, because by the time Satan as "that old serpent" shows up in God's Eden to tempt Eve, he was already in his role as the adversary, showing that he had already fallen.

2. some instead preach that Satan was cast out at Christ's crucifixion, basing it on what Jesus said in John 12...
John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now the prince of this world will be cast out.
WEB


However, many appear to miss 2 other related Bible Scriptures that relate to the Revelation 12:7-9 war and casting down to this earth. One is the Daniel 12:1 Scripture about Archangel Michael will "stand up"...

Dan 12:1
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV

That Daniel 12:1 verse is a type of short summary of 3 main events for the END. The first is Archangel Michael standing up, then the coming of the "great tribulation" Jesus warned us about for the END, for that is what that 'time of trouble' is about per Matthew 24:21. And the third is the time of deliverance of the faithful saints after that tribulation by Lord Jesus Christ's return.


The 2nd related Scripture many miss is when Apostle Paul mentioned about one who does the 'withholding' of the "man of sin" per 2 Thessalonians 2...

2 Thess 2:6-9
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
KJV


Actually there is one more related Scripture, towards the end of the Daniel 10 chapter points to Archangel Michael being the one who is withholding the "prince of Persia" (put for Satan there), along with the angel speaking to Daniel.

Dan 10:20-21
20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
KJV


So WHEN... truely, is the Revelation 12:7-9 casting out of Satan and his angels really for??

Nonsense, the Apostles of Christ testified in the bible about seeing Satan fall from heaven during their lives. Anything else is denying scriptural testimony.

 

[Davy]

Nonsense, the Apostles of Christ testified in the bible about seeing Satan fall from heaven during their lives. Anything else is denying scriptural testimony.

You need to actually read my post instead of just throwing out biased comments that reveal you haven't even addressed the subject of Rev.12:7-14. Oh, and just so you know, the time when Satan first 'fell' was back before Adam when God ended Satan's original rebellion against Him. That was when Jesus said He saw Satan fall as lightning in Luke 10:18. But that was NOT... about the war in Heaven with Archangel Michael, because Daniel 12:1 links that war to the end of this world, just prior to the time of trouble.

Here is where you trapped yourself... because at bottom of my original post I asked the following...

"So WHEN... truly, is the Revelation 12:7-9 casting out of Satan and his angels really for??"

 

[Davy]

Here is what I see many brethren missing in their Biblical understanding about this matter...

1. The Revelation 12:7-9 casting of Satan and his angels out of Heaven gives a specific phrase that points to something very deep. It is easy to miss. Most just bypass it. God's Word is often like this, He often reveals a deep mystery with a short phrase, and it's usually easy to miss.

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV


2. That "neither was their place found any more in heaven" means what? One must first understand what God's Word teaches about the idea of dimensions to begin to grasp that. By dimensions I mean the place where we alive on earth live, compared to the place where God and the angels live. In 1 Corinthians 15:48-50, Apostle Paul revealed this difference between the 2 different dimensions with description of the type body which each dimension manifests.

The type body for this earthly dimension Paul called the "image of the earthy".
The type body for the Heavenly dimension Paul called the "image of the heavenly".

So what type of body does Satan and his angels have per God's Word? They only have a body like the "image of the heavenly", and angelic-like body. They don't have flesh bodies, for one must be born of woman on earth to have a flesh body. Remember Paul said we wrestle not with flesh and blood... .

Understanding that then, what does that "neither was their place found any more in heaven" literally mean? If Satan's place with his angels in the heavenly dimension is no longer there in heaven at that point, then WHERE ELSE can they go?

Since there are ONLY 2 different dimensions of existence taught in God's Word, and the heavenly one they are kicked out of, what other place must they go? To this EARTHLY DIMENSION.

And that is exactly what that Revelation 12:7-13 Scripture is showing us. Satan and his angels are to be literally cast out of the heavenly dimension, down to this earth in OUR dimension, and that is what the coming time of "great tribulation" Lord Jesus mentioned will be about. That is how the Antichrist will be able to perform great signs and wonders that will deceive the 'whole earth' God's Word says, excepting Christ's elect (Revelation 13:4-8). That is what I see the Scriptures pointing to. And I know it is something very difficult for many brethren to grasp. But I cannot deny it, and am led by The Holy Spirit to reveal it to those who are supposed to know.

 

[Jay Ross]

@Davy Isiah 24:21-22 tells us that the heavenly hosts, i.e., Satan, the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 and the Little Horn will be judged at the same time as the kings of the earth are judged at Armageddon and together, they will be imprisoned for many days in a pit to await the time of their punishment.

We know also that the Sixth Bowl Judgement tells us the primary event that will happen that will begin the process of drawing all of the kings of the earth to Armageddon. We have seen the three frog like spirits do their sign and wonders back in 2001, and around 40 or so years will pass before we witness the kings of the earth gathering at Armageddon to be judged for their part in trampling God's sanctuary and Hs earthly Hosts.

Now since Satan has not been judged yet, he has not yet been kicked out of heaven. This event from my understanding will happen within the next 20-25 years' time.

I may not survive that long to see it.

Shalom

 

[Davy]

@Davy Isiah 24:21-22 tells us that the heavenly hosts, i.e., Satan, the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 and the Little Horn will be judged at the same time as the kings of the earth are judged at Armageddon and together, they will be imprisoned for many days in a pit to await the time of their punishment.

Isa 24:21-22
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

That above "day" is the last day of this world when Jesus returns. That... is the time of 7th Vial with the battle of Armageddon.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
KJV

But that 22nd verse, the first part not in bold, is to happen as a result... of the battle of Armageddon on the last day when Jesus comes.

However, that last phrase of verse 22 in bold, "and after many days shall they be visited", is only for after... Christ's "thousand years" reign declared in Revelation 20. That "after many days" phrase is pointing to Christ's future Millennial reign with His elect that begins on the day of His future return.

We know also that the Sixth Bowl Judgement tells us the primary event that will happen that will begin the process of drawing all of the kings of the earth to Armageddon. We have seen the three frog like spirits do their sign and wonders back in 2001, and around 40 or so years will pass before we witness the kings of the earth gathering at Armageddon to be judged for their part in trampling God's sanctuary and Hs earthly Hosts.

No, I don't agree that we have already seen the "signs and wonders" you are pointing to as the 2001 events. The warning Jesus gave about the "great signs and wonders" involves the coming of the future pseudo-Christ to JERUSALEM that He warned His servants about. That has not yet happened today. It is about the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah to Jerusalem to work those great signs and wonders that IF it were possible, would deceive even Christ's very elect. The 2001 terror attack didn't deceive anyone. Instead, it made things very clear as to those behind it, and their goals against Jews and Christians.

Furthermore, because the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah is to place an idol abomination in a Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and that Jewish temple is not built yet today, that is another pointer that today has not yet reaching to time of those 'great signs and wonders' the Antichrist is to do to deceive the whole world.

Now since Satan has not been judged yet, he has not yet been kicked out of heaven. This event from my understanding will happen within the next 20-25 years' time.

I may not survive that long to see it.

Shalom

Satan actually has... already been judged, and sentenced. It just hasn't yet been carried out, because God is still using him. Isaiah 30-31-33 points to his already having been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire" (Tophet). Same thing in Matthew 25:41.

Furthermore about the Isaiah 24:21-22 Scripture, that is only about the kings of the earth under Satan, not Satan himself, although he too will be cast in his pit prison on the day of Christ's future return.

The Revelation 12:7-13 events are a result of a "war" in Heaven, which results in Satan and his angels being cast out of Heaven down to this earth. Also, that casting out is linked to the 3.5 years, or 1260 days, or 42 months, for the time of "great tribulation" which is at the end of this present world prior to Christ's future return. That prevents us from placing that casting out at Christ's day of return. It also prevents us from applying that to the end of Rev.20 when Satan is released out of prison to go tempt the unsaved nations one last time, because, Satan being loosed out of his pit prison is not because of war in Heaven.

But the Revelation 20 event is about Satan being loosed... out of his pit prison to go tempt the unsaved nations. It is not about being cast out of Heaven because of a war with Archangel Michael. Satan being held in prison instead reveals his status as a 'prisoner' when loosed at the end of Rev.20.

 

[ScottA]

Revelation 12:7-9 speaks of a war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels. The result is that Satan and his angels are cast down to this earth. Men's doctrines preach different times for when that event happens, or happened.

1. some preach that happened back when Satan first rebelled against God. That would have to mean before the foundation of this present world, i.e., prior to Adam and Eve, because by the time Satan as "that old serpent" shows up in God's Eden to tempt Eve, he was already in his role as the adversary, showing that he had already fallen.

2. some instead preach that Satan was cast out at Christ's crucifixion, basing it on what Jesus said in John 12...
John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now the prince of this world will be cast out.
WEB


However, many appear to miss 2 other related Bible Scriptures that relate to the Revelation 12:7-9 war and casting down to this earth. One is the Daniel 12:1 Scripture about Archangel Michael will "stand up"...

Dan 12:1
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV

That Daniel 12:1 verse is a type of short summary of 3 main events for the END. The first is Archangel Michael standing up, then the coming of the "great tribulation" Jesus warned us about for the END, for that is what that 'time of trouble' is about per Matthew 24:21. And the third is the time of deliverance of the faithful saints after that tribulation by Lord Jesus Christ's return.


The 2nd related Scripture many miss is when Apostle Paul mentioned about one who does the 'withholding' of the "man of sin" per 2 Thessalonians 2...

2 Thess 2:6-9
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
KJV


Actually there is one more related Scripture, towards the end of the Daniel 10 chapter points to Archangel Michael being the one who is withholding the "prince of Persia" (put for Satan there), along with the angel speaking to Daniel.

Dan 10:20-21
20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
KJV


So WHEN... truely, is the Revelation 12:7-9 casting out of Satan and his angels really for??

This is why the word of truth must be "rightly divided."

Within the scriptures are two narratives: one that speaks (often even in past tense) of what was "before the foundation of the world", and another after the world came to be. Which, in the simplest of terms, is regarding the same events...except from two different perspectives, one from God's timeless perspective, and the other from the perspective of this world. The difficulty is in comprehending or grasping the reality of God making manifest what was [before], that is only played out or revealed in these present chronological terms. If it helps, the world before God is as a book that was written before and only now is read or revealed to the characters within its pages.

The proper chronology then...of a book that was written "before the foundation of the world" whose finish is actually declared by Christ in the middle and before the end, saying, "It is finished"...is that all things were and are "in Christ" in "His time", quite literally "in the twinkling of an eye", but only revealed "line upon line, here a little there a little" pre and post, and all after the fact...or as Paul stated it "but each one in his own order."

Capisce?

 

[Jay Ross]

Isa 24:21-22
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

That above "day" is the last day of this world when Jesus returns. That... is the time of 7th Vial with the battle of Armageddon.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
KJV

But that 22nd verse, the first part not in bold, is to happen as a result... of the battle of Armageddon on the last day when Jesus comes.

However, that last phrase of verse 22 in bold, "and after many days shall they be visited", is only for after... Christ's "thousand years" reign declared in Revelation 20. That "after many days" phrase is pointing to Christ's future Millennial reign with His elect that begins on the day of His future return.

Ah Davy, your grasp of the timing of the Isaiah 24:21-22 verses is lacking. The "in that day" is pointing to the time of Armageddon which will occur around the time of the end of this present sixth age or the very beginning of the seventh age.

No, I don't agree that we have already seen the "signs and wonders" you are pointing to as the 2001 events. The warning Jesus gave about the "great signs and wonders" involves the coming of the future pseudo-Christ to JERUSALEM that He warned His servants about. That has not yet happened today. It is about the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah to Jerusalem to work those great signs and wonders that IF it were possible, would deceive even Christ's very elect. The 2001 terror attack didn't deceive anyone. Instead, it made things very clear as to those behind it, and their goals against Jews and Christians.

Furthermore, because the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah is to place an idol abomination in a Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and that Jewish temple is not built yet today, that is another pointer that today has not yet reaching to time of those 'great signs and wonders' the Antichrist is to do to deceive the whole world.

Here you are confusing the Great signs and wonders of Rev 13 with the signs and wonders of the sixth bowl judgement.

I will state that the Seventh bowl judgement has already happened during the last centaury and that we are presently working through the Six Bowl judgement with the judgement of the kings of the earth who will within the next 20 or so years gather at Armageddon to be judged. Isiaih 24:21-22 references this time of judgement and the fact that Satan, the beasts, the Little Horn and the judged kings of the earth will be gathered in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment. The fact that you want to push the Sixth Bowl Judgement a 1,000 or so years into the future demonstrates that your chronological understanding of End Time events is wonky so say the least.

Satan actually has... already been judged, and sentenced. It just hasn't yet been carried out, because God is still using him. Isaiah 30-31-33 points to his already having been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire" (Tophet). Same thing in Matthew 25:41.

Davy, the war in heaven is still going on and it will only end when Satan is overcome in the heavenlies and is thrown down onto the face of the earth in our near future in around 20 years' time from now. Isiah 24:21-22 points to the judgement in heaven of Satan and the other heavenly hosts that are to be judged with him and found wanting.

Furthermore about the Isaiah 24:21-22 Scripture, that is only about the kings of the earth under Satan, not Satan himself, although he too will be cast in his pit prison on the day of Christ's future return.

Davy that is not what the Isaiah 24:21-22 verses state.

The Revelation 12:7-13 events are a result of a "war" in Heaven, which results in Satan and his angels being cast out of Heaven down to this earth. Also, that casting out is linked to the 3.5 years, or 1260 days, or 42 months, for the time of "great tribulation" which is at the end of this present world prior to Christ's future return. That prevents us from placing that casting out at Christ's day of return. It also prevents us from applying that to the end of Rev.20 when Satan is released out of prison to go tempt the unsaved nations one last time, because, Satan being loosed out of his pit prison is not because of war in Heaven.

Again Davy, there is a 1,000 year gap that needs to be inserted here because as soon as Satan comes down to the face of the earth an angel grabs Satan and chains him and imprisons him for 1,000 years (Rev 20:1-3)

Rev 20 then goes on with: - "7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Rev 20:9b reflects on what is said in Mal 4:1-3.

Davy, I believe that you need to spend more time reflecting on what the scriptures actually state rather than attempting to put forward your understanding because from my meditating and study of the scripture, your understanding is not always in line with the reality of the scriptures

Goodbye noe.

 

[Davidpt]

"So WHEN... truly, is the Revelation 12:7-9 casting out of Satan and his angels really for??"

Which comes first? The war in heaven? Or the casting of satan to the earth? Obviously, the former. What then does the text reveal satan sets out to do once he sees he has been cast out unto the earth?

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 ¶Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

This block of text reveals a number of things.

1) it reveals that once this event takes place, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

2) it reveals that once this event takes place, they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

3) it reveals that once this event takes place, Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

4) it reveals that once this event takes place, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Obviously, nothing involving 1-4 above is pertaining to a time preceding the birth of Christ. Nor is any of it pertaining to a time after His birth but before His death and resurrection. Therefore, when he is cast unto the earth following this war in heaven, it has to be meaning after His death and resurrection. We at least know that since this part is already true when satan sees he has been cast unto the earth---the woman which brought forth the man child. Where verse 5 goes on to reveal---who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


IMO then, verse 5 is key here---and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. That this is the event that leads to the war in heaven and satan then being cast unto the earth. Obviously, this is referring to His ascension into heaven 2000 years ago following His death and resurrection. If that is what started this war in heaven, I guess it is then a question of, how much earth time below does this war in heaven involve until satan sees he has been cast unto the earth?

Another clue to timing is found in 4) above---he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. Has he already done that or is this still something he will do in the future?

Something else to consider is 3) of course---Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Has this great wrath already begun or is it still future? Has his short time already begun or is it still future? We need to factor in 2) and this in order to try and determine the timing of his casting unto the earth---they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Is that something only applicable to the future?

Take Stephen's stoning, for instance. Can this---they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death---fit that event? Keeping in mind as well, Stephen was hardly the only martyr during the past 2000 years. There have been countless martyrs over the past 2000 years. And there have been countless people over the past 2000 years that have overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony. Therefore, to place this war in heaven and he being cast unto the earth as events still in our future hardly seems reasonable if we factor in 1) and 2) above. And we haven't even considered 1) above yet---Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ. We are to believe none of those things are already applicable, that these things are still future?

Keeping in mind, everything pertaining to 1-4 above becomes true when satan is initially cast unto the earth. Nothing pertaining to 1-4 above is meaning before he is cast unto the earth. And if his casting unto the earth still lies in our future, how do we make sense of that in light of 1-2 above?

 

[Davidpt]

Ah Davy, your grasp of the timing of the Isaiah 24:21-22 verses is lacking. The "in that day" is pointing to the time of Armageddon which will occur around the time of the end of this present sixth age or the very beginning of the seventh age.



Here you are confusing the Great signs and wonders of Rev 13 with the signs and wonders of the sixth bowl judgement.

I will state that the Seventh bowl judgement has already happened during the last centaury and that we are presently working through the Six Bowl judgement with the judgement of the kings of the earth who will within the next 20 or so years gather at Armageddon to be judged. Isiaih 24:21-22 references this time of judgement and the fact that Satan, the beasts, the Little Horn and the judged kings of the earth will be gathered in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment. The fact that you want to push the Sixth Bowl Judgement a 1,000 or so years into the future demonstrates that your chronological understanding of End Time events is wonky so say the least.



Davy, the war in heaven is still going on and it will only end when Satan is overcome in the heavenlies and is thrown down onto the face of the earth in our near future in around 20 years' time from now. Isiah 24:21-22 points to the judgement in heaven of Satan and the other heavenly hosts that are to be judged with him and found wanting.



Davy that is not what the Isaiah 24:21-22 verses state.



Again Davy, there is a 1,000 year gap that needs to be inserted here because as soon as Satan comes down to the face of the earth an angel grabs Satan and chains him and imprisons him for 1,000 years (Rev 20:1-3)

Rev 20 then goes on with: - "7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Rev 20:9b reflects on what is said in Mal 4:1-3.

Davy, I believe that you need to spend more time reflecting on what the scriptures actually state rather than attempting to put forward your understanding because from my meditating and study of the scripture, your understanding is not always in line with the reality of the scriptures

Goodbye noe.

These ages you keep referring to, what is that all about? You lost me, that's all I know. I have no clue what you are meaning by these 7 ages.

 

[Jay Ross]

These ages you keep referring to, what is that all about? You lost me, that's all I know. I have no clue what you are meaning by these 7 ages.

In Genesis 15:16 we are told that in/during the fourth generation/age that some of Abraham's descendants will return to the Land of Canaan.

16 But in the fourth generation/age they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.

Here is an explanation of the meaning of H:1755 which is embedded in the first word of this verse, "wə·ḏō·wr".
- - - - - - - - - -
דּוֹר [rwOD, H1755]

This word is almost uniformly translated “generation” in the English Bible. דּוֹר doÑr refers to clans or generations of people from all time: past, present, and future. The word also refers metaphorically both to the people of God and the nations in terms of an indefinite future with a continuous existence. In this latter sense, it closely approximates μl;wO[ .oÑlaÝm (see above). The word is found in both the singular and the plural and occurs some 125 times.

דּוֹר doÑr refers first of all to a contemporary generation of people in the biblical era (cf. Exo. 1: 6; Deu. 1:35; 32:20; Jud. 2:10; Psa. 14: 5; Jer. 2:31). These people are spoken of both positively and negatively (i.e., as those either blessed or condemned by God). Secondly, דּוֹר doÑr refers both positively and negatively to generations of people in the past (cf. Deu. 32: 7; Psa. 78: 8; 95:10; Isa. 41: 4; 51:8; 61:4). Thirdly, דּוֹר doÑr refers to generations in the immediate and not-too-distant future (cf. Gen. 15:16; Exo. 17:16; Psa. 48:13; 102:18).

Finally, the meaning of דּוֹר doÑr is fairly close to that of μl;wO[ .oÑlaÝm in the large majority of instances (approximately eighty occurrences), where it refers to an unending succession of generations to come. In this sense it is virtually a technical expression, commonly translated “... from generation to generation.”

To translate דּוֹר doÑr with the meaning “age” would not be inappropriate in many contexts. It certainly carries a greater nominal sense than does μl;wO[.oÑlaÝm, which is most often translated with adjectival or adverbial force.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
I prefer to use the word "age" with respect to the context of what "doÑr" in most instances where H:1755 is found embedded in the Hebrew text. From an English perspective the English word "generation" is more often understood to have the meaning of a "descendant generation," which is how many understand the meaning in Gen 15:16 to be and as such they have forced a contextual understanding on this verse that this prophecy is associated with the prophecies concerning of God brining Israel out of Egypt.

However, it is my understanding that with the return of the descendants of Abraham to claim the land of Canaan as theirs in 1948 AD fulfills the first half of this verse, with the second half still being fulfilled by the Islamic people who live in and around the Land of Canaan with their claim that Jesus is not the Son of God. and the Amorite people group will be judged in our near future because of their continual trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts, the Israelites

My understanding is that Isaac was born at the beginning of the third Age, 2049 years after the creation of Adam, in the year 2052 BC. Adding these to dates together, the time difference between when Isaac was born and some of Abraham return in 1948, is exactly 4,000 years. If Isaac was born at the beginning of the third Age, then the time span of the first two Ages is 2,048 years which means that the time span of the four Ages is 4,096 years with the fourth Age beginning around the year 1020 AD and ending around the year 2044 AD which means that Abraham's descendants did return to the Land of Canaan in the fourth Age.

With any calculation of time, we must accept that there are accumulated errors that creep into our calculations and as such I would suggest that there is probably and error of between plus or minus 5 to 10 years in the above mentioned dates for when the fourth age began and will end.

I trust that this explanation on my part helps you.

 

[Davidpt]

In Genesis 15:16 we are told that in/during the fourth generation/age that some of Abraham's descendants will return to the Land of Canaan.

16 But in the fourth generation/age they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.

Here is an explanation of the meaning of H:1755 which is embedded in the first word of this verse, "wə·ḏō·wr".
- - - - - - - - - -
דּוֹר [rwOD, H1755]

This word is almost uniformly translated “generation” in the English Bible. דּוֹר doÑr refers to clans or generations of people from all time: past, present, and future. The word also refers metaphorically both to the people of God and the nations in terms of an indefinite future with a continuous existence. In this latter sense, it closely approximates μl;wO[ .oÑlaÝm (see above). The word is found in both the singular and the plural and occurs some 125 times.

דּוֹר doÑr refers first of all to a contemporary generation of people in the biblical era (cf. Exo. 1: 6; Deu. 1:35; 32:20; Jud. 2:10; Psa. 14: 5; Jer. 2:31). These people are spoken of both positively and negatively (i.e., as those either blessed or condemned by God). Secondly, דּוֹר doÑr refers both positively and negatively to generations of people in the past (cf. Deu. 32: 7; Psa. 78: 8; 95:10; Isa. 41: 4; 51:8; 61:4). Thirdly, דּוֹר doÑr refers to generations in the immediate and not-too-distant future (cf. Gen. 15:16; Exo. 17:16; Psa. 48:13; 102:18).

Finally, the meaning of דּוֹר doÑr is fairly close to that of μl;wO[ .oÑlaÝm in the large majority of instances (approximately eighty occurrences), where it refers to an unending succession of generations to come. In this sense it is virtually a technical expression, commonly translated “... from generation to generation.”

To translate דּוֹר doÑr with the meaning “age” would not be inappropriate in many contexts. It certainly carries a greater nominal sense than does μl;wO[.oÑlaÝm, which is most often translated with adjectival or adverbial force.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
I prefer to use the word "age" with respect to the context of what "doÑr" in most instances where H:1755 is found embedded in the Hebrew text. From an English perspective the English word "generation" is more often understood to have the meaning of a "descendant generation," which is how many understand the meaning in Gen 15:16 to be and as such they have forced a contextual understanding on this verse that this prophecy is associated with the prophecies concerning of God brining Israel out of Egypt.

However, it is my understanding that with the return of the descendants of Abraham to claim the land of Canaan as theirs in 1948 AD fulfills the first half of this verse, with the second half still being fulfilled by the Islamic people who live in and around the Land of Canaan with their claim that Jesus is not the Son of God. and the Amorite people group will be judged in our near future because of their continual trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts, the Israelites

My understanding is that Isaac was born at the beginning of the third Age, 2049 years after the creation of Adam, in the year 2052 BC. Adding these to dates together, the time difference between when Isaac was born and some of Abraham return in 1948, is exactly 4,000 years. If Isaac was born at the beginning of the third Age, then the time span of the first two Ages is 2,048 years which means that the time span of the four Ages is 4,096 years with the fourth Age beginning around the year 1020 AD and ending around the year 2044 AD which means that Abraham's descendants did return to the Land of Canaan in the fourth Age.

With any calculation of time, we must accept that there are accumulated errors that creep into our calculations and as such I would suggest that there is probably and error of between plus or minus 5 to 10 years in the above mentioned dates for when the fourth age began and will end.

I trust that this explanation on my part helps you.

This is interesting for certain. I don't know if it helps me yet since I need time to consider it first by thinking through what you submitted. I plan on doing that though, just not sure when. I tend to get side tracked a lot and that something I was intending to do gets put on hold in the meantime.

 

[Davy]

Which comes first? The war in heaven? Or the casting of satan to the earth? Obviously, the former. What then does the text reveal satan sets out to do once he sees he has been cast out unto the earth?

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 ¶Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

This block of text reveals a number of things.

1) it reveals that once this event takes place, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

2) it reveals that once this event takes place, they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

3) it reveals that once this event takes place, Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

4) it reveals that once this event takes place, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Obviously, nothing involving 1-4 above is pertaining to a time preceding the birth of Christ. Nor is any of it pertaining to a time after His birth but before His death and resurrection. Therefore, when he is cast unto the earth following this war in heaven, it has to be meaning after His death and resurrection. We at least know that since this part is already true when satan sees he has been cast unto the earth---the woman which brought forth the man child. Where verse 5 goes on to reveal---who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Very good, except up to the above paragraph section I underlined.

I well know it's a common belief that Satan was cast out at the cross. That mainly because of how many interpret the John 12:31 verse.

John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
KJV

Because the literal "judgment of this world" actually has not really happened yet and reserved for the day of Christ's future return, the way I see that verse is that it is sometime in the future, and not at the time of Christ's death and resurrection.

As a matter of fact, there's some denominations that wrongly believe Christ's kingdom has already 'literally' come in this 'present' world, when God's Word specifically points out that won't literally happen until the day that Jesus returns. His kingdom in Spirit is now, but not the promised physical literal kingdom on earth, not yet. This coupled with the idea in Revelation 12:8 about "... neither was their place found anymore in heaven," reveals when Satan is cast out, it literally means into our earthly dimension, like we would literally 'see' him, his image of man that God created him with. That clearly has not happened yet.

As for the Rev.12:1-5 verses, the verses 1-4 represent a short summary of the time back to Satan's original rebellion when he drew a third of the angels ("stars") to earth with him, and then the time of the 'Seed' of the Woman in God's Garden, (that only later would bear Christ), so it's actually Abel that represented that one which Satan stood before the Woman ready to devour her child. The man Child in verse 5 Who is to rule all nations with the "rod of iron" is Jesus Christ, and would be born later.
The beast system coupled with the time when Satan drew a third of the angels, had "seven crowns", different than the beast system of Rev.13:1 which is to have "ten crowns". Thus the Rev.12:3-4 Scripture is pointing back to the time before Adam when Satan first rebelled in coveting God's Throne. This means the 'war' and casting out in Rev.12:7-9 has to be sometime later.

IMO then, verse 5 is key here---and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. That this is the event that leads to the war in heaven and satan then being cast unto the earth. Obviously, this is referring to His ascension into heaven 2000 years ago following His death and resurrection. If that is what started this war in heaven, I guess it is then a question of, how much earth time below does this war in heaven involve until satan sees he has been cast unto the earth?

If Satan had been cast out of heaven at the cross, per the Rev.12:8 requirement, then the Apostles would have written about actually SEEING Satan in person, here on earth. You might think that's a wild statement about Satan literally appearing on earth with the image of man, but I assure you, it's not. God even revealed in Ezekiel 28:18 that Satan in final will be turned to ashes 'upon the earth', in view of all those who see him.

Thus the "neither was their place found any more in heaven" requirement of Rev.12:8 may seem like a little thing without much meaning, but I assure you, it is a type of 'anchor' in God's Word to show Satan will literally appear on earth in person when that happens. Because many brethren don't appear to understand that, it means they don't really understand the difference between this earthly dimension, and the heavenly one, and how angels can interact within our earthly dimension.


If we look at the Rev.12:9-17 verses that follow Satan being cast out of the heavenly, verse 10 is definitely not pointing back to the time of Satan's original rebellion.

With the Rev.12:11 verse, which is about those who overcome by their Testimony (for Christ), that is about the 5th Seal event of Rev.6. And the SEALS of Rev.6 are the main SIGNS of the end of this world which Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. So uh, oh,... that moves that time of Satan's casting out way forward, for at the very end of this world when that 5th Seal will occur.

With the Rev.12:12 verse pointing to the devil once he is cast down, knowing he has but a "short time", that is more likely pointing to the shortened time of the coming "great tribulation" that Lord Jesus said He shortened for His elect's sake. Again, we have a pointer to the very END of this world with that sign.

In the Rev.12:14 verse, that "time, and times, and half a time" represents the 3.5 years, or 1260 days, or 42 months, prophesied in the Book of Daniel and... in Rev.11 and Rev.13 about the devil's reign at the very END of this world. So uh, oh... again, the time of Satan's casting out is again moved forward to the end of this world by that also.

In the Rev.12:15-16 verses, I shall reveal a 'mystery' about the length Jesus shortened the time of the "great tribulation" to. Those verses reveal a symbolic flood of waters coming out of the serpent's 'mouth' (LIES), and the earth symbolically swallows up the flood, which serves as a parallel to the time of the flood of Noah's days. The time which the ark of Noah prevailed upon the flood waters was 150 days per Gen.7:24. Per old Hebrew reckoning of 30 days to a month, that meant 5 months. That equals the time of the stinging of Rev.9 of those NOT sealed with God's Seal for the coming trib. So uh, oh, ... there's another pointer that the time of the war in heaven and Satan's casting out is for the END of this world, and not at any time before.

In the Rev.12:17 verse, it is pointing to the symbolic woman, specifically a "remnant" that keeps God's commandments, and has the Testimony of Jesus Christ, i.e., The Gospel. That means we cannot just arbitrarily push the previous events involving Satan's casting out of heaven back to Old Testament history, nor just about Jews, nor about the time of Christ's 1st coming and crucifixion, simply because the idea of that "remnant" of the seed is according to the end of this world, i.e., Isaiah 10:20-22; Isaiah 11:11; Joel 2:31-32; Romans 9:27.