A simple question.God, supposedly, is a being of infinite power and wisdom. What reason would he have to concern himself with creating a physical universe, and in particular, people? Why did he bother?
Why would God bother?
- Thread starter Lunar
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(Lunar;52277)
A simple question.God, supposedly, is a being of infinite power and wisdom. What reason would he have to concern himself with creating a physical universe, and in particular, people? Why did he bother?
Another question I used to ask myself is what right does he have to meddle with our lives and judge us?
A simple question.God, supposedly, is a being of infinite power and wisdom. What reason would he have to concern himself with creating a physical universe, and in particular, people? Why did he bother?
Another question I used to ask myself is what right does he have to meddle with our lives and judge us?
(Shornaal;52281)
Another question I used to ask myself is what right does he have to meddle with our lives and judge us?
I guess my questions to you would be:How much you truly understand or even love about God? Why are you seeking Him? What right did your parents have to meddle in your life while you were growing up? Tell me in all honesty, don't you crave a judgement of "well done child" from your parents, wanting so much for them to be proud of you? Do you have a good bible?
Another question I used to ask myself is what right does he have to meddle with our lives and judge us?
I guess my questions to you would be:How much you truly understand or even love about God? Why are you seeking Him? What right did your parents have to meddle in your life while you were growing up? Tell me in all honesty, don't you crave a judgement of "well done child" from your parents, wanting so much for them to be proud of you? Do you have a good bible?
(Lunar;52277)
A simple question.God, supposedly, is a being of infinite power and wisdom. What reason would he have to concern himself with creating a physical universe, and in particular, people? Why did he bother?
good question. Have you asked Him? The answers do lie within the written Word. I know I know...not a reliable source. You're better off there than having us answer the question, it is a big question with many ways to answer it but unfortunately none are capable of giving you a complete 100% accurate answer, even though there are some who will believe they can. Your best place to find these answers is in the bible, prayer and someone you find you can trust to be to the point that you respect because he speaks truth to you. IMO
A simple question.God, supposedly, is a being of infinite power and wisdom. What reason would he have to concern himself with creating a physical universe, and in particular, people? Why did he bother?
good question. Have you asked Him? The answers do lie within the written Word. I know I know...not a reliable source. You're better off there than having us answer the question, it is a big question with many ways to answer it but unfortunately none are capable of giving you a complete 100% accurate answer, even though there are some who will believe they can. Your best place to find these answers is in the bible, prayer and someone you find you can trust to be to the point that you respect because he speaks truth to you. IMO
(Jackie D;52303)
I guess my questions to you would be:How much you truly understand or even love about God? Why are you seeking Him? What right did your parents have to meddle in your life while you were growing up? Tell me in all honesty, don't you crave a judgement of "well done child" from your parents, wanting so much for them to be proud of you? Do you have a good bible?
I mostly seek God because I seek truth that's the reason I'm asking these questions.My parents did what they thought was right, they didn't throw me into everlasting fire if I happened to fall in love with a boy instead of a girl.I've reently gotten a better bible from late 1800, the one I read a few years ago had a bit too modern language for my taste.
I guess my questions to you would be:How much you truly understand or even love about God? Why are you seeking Him? What right did your parents have to meddle in your life while you were growing up? Tell me in all honesty, don't you crave a judgement of "well done child" from your parents, wanting so much for them to be proud of you? Do you have a good bible?
I mostly seek God because I seek truth that's the reason I'm asking these questions.My parents did what they thought was right, they didn't throw me into everlasting fire if I happened to fall in love with a boy instead of a girl.I've reently gotten a better bible from late 1800, the one I read a few years ago had a bit too modern language for my taste.
(Shornaal;52315)
I mostly seek God because I seek truth that's the reason I'm asking these questions.
So again, what do you love about God and how do you express your love to Him?
My parents did what they thought was right, they didn't throw me into everlasting fire if I happened to fall in love with a boy instead of a girl..
nowhere in the bible is love the sin, no where. It is in actions that go against the word. If you happened to fall in love with someone of the same sex, which I imagine is pretty confusing, that doesn't mean you have to commit homosexual acts and bring judgement upon yourself for God finds it an abomination. It is disobedience that brings about hard consequence. Your parents did what they thought was right and I'm sure there were many times when their rules just seemed stupid and unfair..and when you broke them, you paid a price for it.
I've reently gotten a better bible from late 1800, the one I read a few years ago had a bit too modern language for my taste.
Good. Reading it and prayerfully asking for guidance, you will learn. It takes time, but if you are diligent it will happen....feel free to PM me, I will do what I can to be helpful without confusing you.
I mostly seek God because I seek truth that's the reason I'm asking these questions.
So again, what do you love about God and how do you express your love to Him?
My parents did what they thought was right, they didn't throw me into everlasting fire if I happened to fall in love with a boy instead of a girl..
nowhere in the bible is love the sin, no where. It is in actions that go against the word. If you happened to fall in love with someone of the same sex, which I imagine is pretty confusing, that doesn't mean you have to commit homosexual acts and bring judgement upon yourself for God finds it an abomination. It is disobedience that brings about hard consequence. Your parents did what they thought was right and I'm sure there were many times when their rules just seemed stupid and unfair..and when you broke them, you paid a price for it.
I've reently gotten a better bible from late 1800, the one I read a few years ago had a bit too modern language for my taste.
Good. Reading it and prayerfully asking for guidance, you will learn. It takes time, but if you are diligent it will happen....feel free to PM me, I will do what I can to be helpful without confusing you.
(Jackie D;52305)
Your best place to find these answers is in the bible, prayer and someone you find you can trust to be to the point that you respect because he speaks truth to you. IMO
Do you think maybe you could point me to a few verses that address this question, to get started on?
Your best place to find these answers is in the bible, prayer and someone you find you can trust to be to the point that you respect because he speaks truth to you. IMO
Do you think maybe you could point me to a few verses that address this question, to get started on?
(Lunar;52320)
Do you think maybe you could point me to a few verses that address this question, to get started on?
I have never been one to memorize verse, so off the top of my hat I personally am unable to without consulting with someone I trust implicitly to point me in the right direction. I will ask for the help and get to you what I am given. That's the best I have at this moment...
Do you think maybe you could point me to a few verses that address this question, to get started on?
I have never been one to memorize verse, so off the top of my hat I personally am unable to without consulting with someone I trust implicitly to point me in the right direction. I will ask for the help and get to you what I am given. That's the best I have at this moment...
Rudy
New Member
(Lunar;52320)
Do you think maybe you could point me to a few verses that address this question, to get started on?
Jeremiah 31:3 -- The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying: "Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.Isaiah 43:7 -- Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."Colossians 1:16 -- For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.Revelation 4:11 -- "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."I hope this helps, Lunar.
Do you think maybe you could point me to a few verses that address this question, to get started on?
Jeremiah 31:3 -- The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying: "Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.Isaiah 43:7 -- Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."Colossians 1:16 -- For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.Revelation 4:11 -- "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."I hope this helps, Lunar.
(Rudy;52345)
Jeremiah 31:3 -- The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying: "Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.Isaiah 43:7 -- Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."Colossians 1:16 -- For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.Revelation 4:11 -- "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."I hope this helps, Lunar.
The first and last passages don't really help, but the middle two say that God created the universe "for his glory" or "for him." That's a start, but it sort of begs the question. What purpose does it serve for him? Isn't he above something so petty as a material world, when he is infinite and incomprehensible? And isn't it a show of vanity to create something just for the sake of your own glory?
Jeremiah 31:3 -- The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying: "Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.Isaiah 43:7 -- Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."Colossians 1:16 -- For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.Revelation 4:11 -- "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."I hope this helps, Lunar.
The first and last passages don't really help, but the middle two say that God created the universe "for his glory" or "for him." That's a start, but it sort of begs the question. What purpose does it serve for him? Isn't he above something so petty as a material world, when he is infinite and incomprehensible? And isn't it a show of vanity to create something just for the sake of your own glory?
(Lunar;52360)
The first and last passages don't really help, but the middle two say that God created the universe "for his glory" or "for him." That's a start, but it sort of begs the question. What purpose does it serve for him? Isn't he above something so petty as a material world, when he is infinite and incomprehensible? And isn't it a show of vanity to create something just for the sake of your own glory?
sounds like beelzebub just spoke. No offense intended to you Lunar, as you are most likely just asking questions. So tell me, when you make something who do you hope gets the recognition and, perhaps glory, of creating it? And why?
The first and last passages don't really help, but the middle two say that God created the universe "for his glory" or "for him." That's a start, but it sort of begs the question. What purpose does it serve for him? Isn't he above something so petty as a material world, when he is infinite and incomprehensible? And isn't it a show of vanity to create something just for the sake of your own glory?
sounds like beelzebub just spoke. No offense intended to you Lunar, as you are most likely just asking questions. So tell me, when you make something who do you hope gets the recognition and, perhaps glory, of creating it? And why?
(Jackie D;52362)
sounds like beelzebub just spoke. No offense intended to you Lunar, as you are most likely just asking questions. So tell me, when you make something who do you hope gets the recognition and, perhaps glory, of creating it? And why?
But if there is only one God and we are the only living being in the universe who is there to give praise unto him except for us?Also we are forced to praise him otherwise he will barbeques us for eternity.Also why would a babylonian god such as beelzebub speak ill of our lord? I thought there were no other gods?
sounds like beelzebub just spoke. No offense intended to you Lunar, as you are most likely just asking questions. So tell me, when you make something who do you hope gets the recognition and, perhaps glory, of creating it? And why?
But if there is only one God and we are the only living being in the universe who is there to give praise unto him except for us?Also we are forced to praise him otherwise he will barbeques us for eternity.Also why would a babylonian god such as beelzebub speak ill of our lord? I thought there were no other gods?
(Shornaal;52363)
(Jackie D;52362)
sounds like beelzebub just spoke. No offense intended to you Lunar, as you are most likely just asking questions.So tell me, when you make something who do you hope gets the recognition and, perhaps glory, of creating it? And why?
But if there is only one God and we are the only living being in the universe who is there to give praise unto him except for us?Also we are forced to praise him otherwise he will barbeques us for eternity.Who is forcing you to love Him? What do you mean by barbeque? Do you mean "Burning in Hell forever"? If so, that is 100% unbiblical.
(Jackie D;52362)
sounds like beelzebub just spoke. No offense intended to you Lunar, as you are most likely just asking questions.So tell me, when you make something who do you hope gets the recognition and, perhaps glory, of creating it? And why?
But if there is only one God and we are the only living being in the universe who is there to give praise unto him except for us?Also we are forced to praise him otherwise he will barbeques us for eternity.Who is forcing you to love Him? What do you mean by barbeque? Do you mean "Burning in Hell forever"? If so, that is 100% unbiblical.
(Shornaal;52363)
But if there is only one God and we are the only living being in the universe who is there to give praise unto him except for us?Also we are forced to praise him otherwise he will barbeques us for eternity.Also why would a babylonian god such as beelzebub speak ill of our lord? I thought there were no other gods?
would you feel better if I had said "sounds like Satan just spoke?"
But if there is only one God and we are the only living being in the universe who is there to give praise unto him except for us?Also we are forced to praise him otherwise he will barbeques us for eternity.Also why would a babylonian god such as beelzebub speak ill of our lord? I thought there were no other gods?
would you feel better if I had said "sounds like Satan just spoke?"
(thesuperjag;52364)
Who is forcing you to love Him? What do you mean by barbeque? Do you mean "Burning in Hell forever"? If so, that is 100% unbiblical.
I heard something some time ago that hell as we know it was only added during the early midle ages in order to get people to convert out of fear.I very much prefer Jesus way of compassion and love to spread the word of God.(Jackie D;52365)
would you feel better if I had said "sounds like Satan just spoke?"
Is beelzebub satan?Never heard that name for him before, sorry for any misunderstanding I didn't know of a connection between the two.Is there a reason why satan has ben given that name?
Who is forcing you to love Him? What do you mean by barbeque? Do you mean "Burning in Hell forever"? If so, that is 100% unbiblical.
I heard something some time ago that hell as we know it was only added during the early midle ages in order to get people to convert out of fear.I very much prefer Jesus way of compassion and love to spread the word of God.(Jackie D;52365)
would you feel better if I had said "sounds like Satan just spoke?"
Is beelzebub satan?Never heard that name for him before, sorry for any misunderstanding I didn't know of a connection between the two.Is there a reason why satan has ben given that name?
(shornaal;52369)
(thesuperjag;52364)
Who is forcing you to love Him? What do you mean by barbeque? Do you mean "Burning in Hell forever"? If so, that is 100% unbiblical.
I heard something some time ago that hell as we know it was only added during the early midle ages in order to get people to convert out of fear.I very much prefer Jesus way of compassion and love to spread the word of God.Hey so do I, but this "Hell" has been so far out stretch by men to make it mean different. This "Hell" is man-made as it is not the same discription which God was referring to. God said it completely different than men says.
(thesuperjag;52364)
Who is forcing you to love Him? What do you mean by barbeque? Do you mean "Burning in Hell forever"? If so, that is 100% unbiblical.
I heard something some time ago that hell as we know it was only added during the early midle ages in order to get people to convert out of fear.I very much prefer Jesus way of compassion and love to spread the word of God.Hey so do I, but this "Hell" has been so far out stretch by men to make it mean different. This "Hell" is man-made as it is not the same discription which God was referring to. God said it completely different than men says.
(Jackie D;52362)
sounds like beelzebub just spoke. No offense intended to you Lunar, as you are most likely just asking questions.
Well I'm glad you didn't mean it, but I actually am kind of offended. I hope I'm not being accused of being possessed by Satan or something.(Jackie D)
So tell me, when you make something who do you hope gets the recognition and, perhaps glory, of creating it? And why?
I'm an artist, so I'll speak from my experience with that. I simply find it enjoyable and fulfilling. I'm not trying to acquire any "glory" for it and I'm not trying to impress anyone. I consider myself above that; I would think that God would be, too.Actually, I don't understand the anthropocentric comparisons in general. Why are we imbuing him with human qualities like pride and vanity? Who is God trying to impress? He's infinitely wiser than anyone he could win glory from, so why would he concern himself with it?
sounds like beelzebub just spoke. No offense intended to you Lunar, as you are most likely just asking questions.
Well I'm glad you didn't mean it, but I actually am kind of offended. I hope I'm not being accused of being possessed by Satan or something.(Jackie D)
So tell me, when you make something who do you hope gets the recognition and, perhaps glory, of creating it? And why?
I'm an artist, so I'll speak from my experience with that. I simply find it enjoyable and fulfilling. I'm not trying to acquire any "glory" for it and I'm not trying to impress anyone. I consider myself above that; I would think that God would be, too.Actually, I don't understand the anthropocentric comparisons in general. Why are we imbuing him with human qualities like pride and vanity? Who is God trying to impress? He's infinitely wiser than anyone he could win glory from, so why would he concern himself with it?
(Lunar;52379)
Well I'm glad you didn't mean it, but I actually am kind of offended. I hope I'm not being accused of being possessed by Satan or something.
No I was not accusing you of being possessed by Satan. It just sounded exactly like something the devil would say...Mat 4:1-11(Lunar;52379)
I'm an artist, so I'll speak from my experience with that. I simply find it enjoyable and fulfilling. I'm not trying to acquire any "glory" for it and I'm not trying to impress anyone. I consider myself above that; I would think that God would be, too.
Nor is God trying to acquire glory, He already owns it all, and He isn't trying to acquire it in the sense that you are accusing Him of. He is no less to us than an earthly father to his sons and daughters. He finds enjoyment and fulfillment in them. So in essence raising children is a glorious thing, wouldn't you agree?Why is it that because the Creator Almighty God wants all of creation to glorify Him people are offended and think that He is being anything more than what He deserves to be by His Greatness?(Lunar;52379)
Actually, I don't understand the anthropocentric comparisons in general. Why are we imbuing him with human qualities like pride and vanity? Who is God trying to impress? He's infinitely wiser than anyone he could win glory from, so why would he concern himself with it?
I am not imbuing Him with these human character flaws, you are. So please don't include me in your ignorant POV of Him. He isn't concerned with it. He knows it will happen whether people such as yourself like it or not. Again, the only one who seems to be concerned and looking for a flaw in Him is yourself. ANYWAYZZZZ....in the OP was your intention to bring the conversation in this direction so that you could speak against God? Or are you truly trying to understand Him? blessings
Well I'm glad you didn't mean it, but I actually am kind of offended. I hope I'm not being accused of being possessed by Satan or something.
No I was not accusing you of being possessed by Satan. It just sounded exactly like something the devil would say...Mat 4:1-11(Lunar;52379)
I'm an artist, so I'll speak from my experience with that. I simply find it enjoyable and fulfilling. I'm not trying to acquire any "glory" for it and I'm not trying to impress anyone. I consider myself above that; I would think that God would be, too.
Nor is God trying to acquire glory, He already owns it all, and He isn't trying to acquire it in the sense that you are accusing Him of. He is no less to us than an earthly father to his sons and daughters. He finds enjoyment and fulfillment in them. So in essence raising children is a glorious thing, wouldn't you agree?Why is it that because the Creator Almighty God wants all of creation to glorify Him people are offended and think that He is being anything more than what He deserves to be by His Greatness?(Lunar;52379)
Actually, I don't understand the anthropocentric comparisons in general. Why are we imbuing him with human qualities like pride and vanity? Who is God trying to impress? He's infinitely wiser than anyone he could win glory from, so why would he concern himself with it?
I am not imbuing Him with these human character flaws, you are. So please don't include me in your ignorant POV of Him. He isn't concerned with it. He knows it will happen whether people such as yourself like it or not. Again, the only one who seems to be concerned and looking for a flaw in Him is yourself. ANYWAYZZZZ....in the OP was your intention to bring the conversation in this direction so that you could speak against God? Or are you truly trying to understand Him? blessings
(Jackie D;52381)
Nor is God trying to acquire glory
But that's what the passage says. He created the universe for his glory.(Jackie D)
He is no less to us than an earthly father to his sons and daughters. He finds enjoyment and fulfillment in them.
But - and this is the real crux of the question, so pay close attention - why would an all-powerful being like God need to raise children to be fulfilled? Raising children is the realm of mortals. God could simply wish himself to be fulfilled and have it done. Creating a material universe and then judging its sins is overly complicated and unnecessary. God doesn't need those things for fulfillment.(Jackie D)
So in essence raising children is a glorious thing, wouldn't you agree?
Glory means honor, admiration, or praise. No one would raise their children just for the sake of praise.(Jackie D)
Why is it that because the Creator Almighty God wants all of creation to glorify Him people are offended and think that He is being anything more than what He deserves to be by His Greatness?
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's pretend that, through ingenious scientific discovery, a man acquired so much power that he could create entire universes just as intricate as ours. Let's pretend that he did just that, for the sake of his own glory. And then let's pretend that he demanded that all of his creation worshipped him, with the threat of eternal punishment.Would we consider this appropriate behavior for a man with power such as his? Is this legitimate because it is "for his glory?" Or would we think him egomaniacal?(Jackie D)
Again, the only one who seems to be concerned and looking for a flaw in Him is yourself.
I'm not looking for a flaw. They're right there for me to see. I just call it like I see it.(Jackie D)
ANYWAYZZZZ....in the OP was your intention to bring the conversation in this direction so that you could speak against God? Or are you truly trying to understand Him?
I can't possibly "understand" him if there appear to be such blatant contradictions or flaws. If you see this as an agenda on my behalf to discredit God, then I think you fail to understand me. If all there is to understand is a contradiction, then I feel as though that's an argument against Christian theology. If you think there's something more than that, you'll have to explain it to me, because I'm not seeing it.
Nor is God trying to acquire glory
But that's what the passage says. He created the universe for his glory.(Jackie D)
He is no less to us than an earthly father to his sons and daughters. He finds enjoyment and fulfillment in them.
But - and this is the real crux of the question, so pay close attention - why would an all-powerful being like God need to raise children to be fulfilled? Raising children is the realm of mortals. God could simply wish himself to be fulfilled and have it done. Creating a material universe and then judging its sins is overly complicated and unnecessary. God doesn't need those things for fulfillment.(Jackie D)
So in essence raising children is a glorious thing, wouldn't you agree?
Glory means honor, admiration, or praise. No one would raise their children just for the sake of praise.(Jackie D)
Why is it that because the Creator Almighty God wants all of creation to glorify Him people are offended and think that He is being anything more than what He deserves to be by His Greatness?
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's pretend that, through ingenious scientific discovery, a man acquired so much power that he could create entire universes just as intricate as ours. Let's pretend that he did just that, for the sake of his own glory. And then let's pretend that he demanded that all of his creation worshipped him, with the threat of eternal punishment.Would we consider this appropriate behavior for a man with power such as his? Is this legitimate because it is "for his glory?" Or would we think him egomaniacal?(Jackie D)
Again, the only one who seems to be concerned and looking for a flaw in Him is yourself.
I'm not looking for a flaw. They're right there for me to see. I just call it like I see it.(Jackie D)
ANYWAYZZZZ....in the OP was your intention to bring the conversation in this direction so that you could speak against God? Or are you truly trying to understand Him?
I can't possibly "understand" him if there appear to be such blatant contradictions or flaws. If you see this as an agenda on my behalf to discredit God, then I think you fail to understand me. If all there is to understand is a contradiction, then I feel as though that's an argument against Christian theology. If you think there's something more than that, you'll have to explain it to me, because I'm not seeing it.
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