Why are the 7 Churches in Revelation each greeted differently...

Waiting on him said:

But, did he witness it?

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well, Jesus sure said he was gonna, huh? Seems to me that there were more than one HP during Jesus' ministry is not being addressed here too fwiw. Annas had five (5) "sons" who also held the role

Waiting on him said:

Acts 2:3 KJV
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Clouds?

Tecarta Bible

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well, i dont see the relationship myself, doesnt mean you arent seeing something i dont though i guess. But i dont see how those might relate to clouds?

Giuliano said:

I have to believe the "stars" in Revelation can be compared to a fig tree. The wicked are cut down and their fruit comes to nothing -- but the good tree and its fruits are preserved.

I think the cursing of the fig tree also shows something. Israel had stopped bearing fruit.

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With this the parables spoken become clearer, yeah?

Willie T said:

Has anyone ever looked-up what "coming-on-the-clouds" meant in other parts of the Bible? (Scripture interprets Scripture, ya know.)

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I think "clouds" makes an interesting subject. What was "in" the cloud described also as a pillar of fire by night? Why is it said there was a "cloud" on Mount Sinai?

Exodus 24:15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.
16 And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
17 And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

And this:

Leviticus 16:2 And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

It's definitely not physical clouds if you ask me.

Numbers 11:25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

1 Kings 8:10 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord,

Many people will tell you about times they could "feel" something in a room without seeing anything. There is something there, too. It may not manifest so earthly eyes can see it; but people have a spiritual sense that tells them something's there.

People can also summon negative spirits just by talking about them or creepy things. Focusing on negative things like that attracts "things" that can't "materialize" or be able to be seen -- but they can make your skin crawl. Those are also clouds of a sort. Something's there but it doesn't "get together" to take on form. For a spirit to appear, it first occupies a space with its presence in a cloud. It then emerges and takes shape.

That's "appearing in clouds" -- of upper waters. There's also things that "come out of the water." That's "lower waters." Usually such creatures are nasty -- negative emotions, spiritually wicked, etc. They exist "in the sea" and want to take form by coming out of the water.

In baptism, a new creature comes out of both upper and lower waters.

In Revelation, we see nasty things can get out of water too. Christians pray for things on the earth to be the way they are in Heaven. The Dark Side wants things to become the way they are in hell -- and it can work by attacking the minds and souls of men and corrupting them, conforming them to darkness.

VictoryinJesus said:

With this the parables spoken become clearer, yeah?

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I think so, and at other times, the parables seem to help with Revelation. Revelation also helped me understand Genesis better.

Jesus said seek first the kingdom. I do not think anyone could understand Revelation by reading it alone. Too many times, people are interested in the future and didn't pay enough attention to other things. It's almost as if they forgot other things they read.

Giuliano said:

I think "clouds" makes an interesting subject. What was "in" the cloud described also as a pillar of fire by night? Why is it said there was a "cloud" on Mount Sinai?

Exodus 24:15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.
16 And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
17 And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

And this:

Leviticus 16:2 And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

It's definitely not physical clouds if you ask me.

Numbers 11:25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

1 Kings 8:10 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord,

Many people will tell you about times they could "feel" something in a room without seeing anything. There is something there, too. It may not manifest so earthly eyes can see it; but people have a spiritual sense that tells them something's there.

People can also summon negative spirits just by talking about them or creepy things. Focusing on negative things like that attracts "things" that can't "materialize" or be able to be seen -- but they can make your skin crawl. Those are also clouds of a sort. Something's there but it doesn't "get together" to take on form. For a spirit to appear, it first occupies a space with its presence in a cloud. It then emerges and takes shape.

That's "appearing in clouds" -- of upper waters. There's also things that "come out of the water." That's "lower waters." Usually such creatures are nasty -- negative emotions, spiritually wicked, etc. They exist "in the sea" and want to take form by coming out of the water.

In baptism, a new creature comes out of both upper and lower waters.

In Revelation, we see nasty things can get out of water too. Christians pray for things on the earth to be the way they are in Heaven. The Dark Side wants things to become the way they are in hell -- and it can work by attacking the minds and souls of men and corrupting them, conforming them to darkness.

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Consider Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

“a cloud received Him” out of their sight...and the great cloud of witnesses we are told of...those whom “receive” him in as One body, one mind, one voice ...in agreement in And for His great namesake...as Paul then said consider it ...now lay aside the weight and run.

Maybe Aline how he left “this world” yet could say “I will never leave nor forsake you” as those who receive him iin as that great cloud. John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

With his leaving having been received into a great cloud of witness to return again on or in “a cloud” .

Giuliano said:

I think so, and at other times, the parables seem to help with Revelation. Revelation also helped me understand Genesis better.

Jesus said seek first the kingdom. I do not think anyone could understand Revelation by reading it alone. Too many times, people are interested in the future and didn't pay enough attention to other things. It's almost as if they forgot other things they read.

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Wrote this a little while back in another thread...may sound crazy. I’m assuming it does..
Job 37:1-14
[1] At this also my heart trembleth, and is moved out of his place. [2] Hear attentively the noise of his voice,and the sound that goeth out of his mouth.(every word proceeding out from God) [3] He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth. [4] After it a voice roareth: he thundereth with the voice of his excellency; and he will not stay them when his voice is heard. [5] God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend. [6] For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength. [7] He sealeth up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work. [8] Then the beasts go into dens, and remain in their places. [9] Out of the south cometh the whirlwind: and cold out of the north. [10] By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened. [11] Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: he scattereth his bright cloud: [12] And it (His scattered bright cloud) is turned round about by his counsels:that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth. [13] He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy. [14] Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.

...he scattered his bright cloud. (Then gathers them)
...by His counsels...that they may do whatever he commands them.
...He causeth it (His bright cloud)to come, whether for correction, or for His (promise)land, or for mercy.

When does a bright cloud come for correction, or for “His land” that (good ground blessing is sown into and sprang up the increase given of God,) or when do clouds come for mercy. While he yet spoke, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and BEHOLD a voice out of the cloud, which said, “This is my beloved Son, in Whom I am welll pleased; hear you Him.”

VictoryinJesus said:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ whereby Paul said he received of God the gospel preached unto you

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Giuliano said:

First we should understand how Jesus comes for us and leads us into the rest of the seventh day of Genesis. If we understand how he can perfect and come for us, then we have clues about he can perfect the world and eventually come for the whole world.

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Yes. Was reading through your post above and you mention “mountains” which needed to be moved. In the passage of the sun turning to sackcloth(mourning) and the moon to blood...a third of the stars fall...mountains move out of their place.

Jeremiah 6:6-10 For thus hath the Lord of hosts said, Hew ye down trees, and cast a mount against Jerusalem: this is the city to be visited; she is wholly oppression in the midst of her. [7] As a fountain casteth out her waters, so she casteth out her wickedness: violence and spoil is heard in her; before me continually is grief and wounds. [8] Be thou instructed, O Jerusalem, lest my soul depart from thee; lest I make thee desolate, a land not inhabited. [9] Thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall throughly glean the remnant of Israel as a vine: turn back thine hand as a grapegatherer into the baskets. [10] To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear is uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the Lord is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it.

Be thou instructed, O Jerusalem, lest my soul depart from thee; les I make thee desolate...
Revelation 6:14
[14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

He said “behold, I make all things new.”
Very important maybe in reference to the Revelation of Jesus Christ by which Paul was taught the gospel given of God, hidden until then. “To whom shall I speak, and GIVE WARNING, that they may hear? “Their ear is uncircumcised” and they won’t hear....” the word of the Lord is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it.

“The Word is unto them a reproach. Compare this to the stone rejected which man either falls upon and is broken or the stone falls upon him and man is crushed. In whom they have no delight but HE is precious in your sight.
1 Peter 2:7-8 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, [8] And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is a blessing which comes with grace, and overcomes the curse. Either a reproach or a foundation laid anew in The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Good overcomes evil. The blessing overcomes the curse. In He sets before us “a blessing” or “a curse”.

Waiting on him said:

What?

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Let me start with the idea of the three heavens and the earth. Satan needs to be cast out of all four, and finally will be; but in the meanwhile, it's a continuing process. I think he's permanently cast out of the third or highest heaven except for rare events.

He can rise there only when a saint is ready to be judged. God doesn't allow Satan to rise up that far unless He knows the saint can pass the test. Thus Satan is around in the book of Job. We aren't told what happened to Satan in the end -- he doesn't get mentioned.

Satan also showed up to accuse Joshua the High Priest. God sees Joshua's dirty garments and gives him clean ones. Satan loses.

As long as anyone has spiritual sins, he's trying (perhaps without knowing it) to give Satan a foothold in the third heaven. When the saint is ready to be shown those spiritual sins so he can repent, he appears in Heaven with Satan to accuse him. When Satan loses, he's cast down again.

The third heaven is fire. The second is air, and the third (contaminated now) is water -- or the sea in Revelation. These correspond to the Seals, Trumps, and Vials in Revelation. While it's hard to see a connection between "seals" and fire, the other connections are easier since "trumpets" are heard in the air, and vials contain liquids. The movement in Revelation is downwards. First the third heaven is changed. Then the trumps sound and change things in the plane of the mind. The vials are in water -- which is feeling or emotional. When those are purified, the Power of Heaven then takes on the earth.

Satan got cast down out of fire; and resides now mostly in air -- which corresponds to the mind. Thus Paul talks about him as the prince of the air.

When the 70 went out casting out demons, again Satan lost space in heaven. I don't know which heaven he was cast out of or which heaven he was cast into, but he fell.

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

I think Satan still had some footholds in the third heaven and got cast out -- but to be honest, I'm not sure.

Revelation shows how wickedness is defeated by being cast down from one level to a lower. So Satan is first cast out of the Third Heaven, then out of the Second Heaven, he lost his power in air -- and that leaves him only the heaven of water and the earth.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Our souls exist on the level of the sea. In that way, we can be said to like fish. There's "doctrine" in what Jesus said to Peter about being a fisher of men.

So Satan, cast out of the two heavens of fire and air has to resort to trying to use "the sea." First a beast comes out of the sea. This would not be visible to mortal eyes since it's on the emotional plane of the soul. Next a beast comes up out of the earth. I think he is a physical person.

The next step is to cleanse the "sea" -- the plane or heaven of "lower waters." The action is is that of vials with liquids. It may look frightening, but it's very good. "Our Lady of Babylon" who sat on the waters is also defeated. The soul is of water if considered spiritually, and it's described that way.

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

At this point, most evil spiritual forces have been cast down and defeated. Man is still not ready for the final showdown. He needs time to mature and grow strong, time to learn the truth since no one is judged for sins of ignorance. So Satan is bound in another plane -- so he can't do any harm doing the 1000 years. After men come to know the truth and are strong enough, they can be judged. People will have to make up their minds at that point. They'll have to decide, with full knowledge, who they will serve. Satan is released, and then people have to choose.

Right now, there are souls "trapped" in the waters, prisoners of the Dark Side. Those who weren't trapped that way can be resurrected before the 1000 years; those who wind up "trapped" after the 1000 years are released and judged "according to their works."

Compare this to Jonah who was in the sea. He says he was in sheol -- the grave or hell. He was too. I'd say he encountered the "beast of the water." When he remembered God, God got him out. The book of Jonah is another book that has clues it should not be interpreted in earthly terms. Jesus also compared himself to Jonah. The pattern is the same in more ways than "three days and three nights." Jesus also entered the sea and the heart of the earth -- before coming back. The biggest difference may be that Jonah's physical body didn't die while Jesus' did. That is because Jonah couldn't defeat death. That job had to wait. Jesus did some preaching between the crucifixion and resurrection.

We are not told when "bodies" came out of their graves, but we're told them did following his crucifixion. This was not their physical bodies however. It was their emotional bodies which had been trapped in the earth -- sleeping. They could be seen by the righteous. Prior to Jesus, part of man's soul could be trapped after death. It's meant to be raised in the resurrection and united with man's others parts. This was what the witch of Endor could summon. She said she saw it rising up out of the earth. She should have left it sleeping. Some say it wan't Samuel, but the text says it was.

Great confusion has arisen over how souls slept before Jesus' day. People believe that just because souls went to sleep then, that's the way souls today must do. It tends to confuse many. Some even say all souls before Jesus' day went to sleep. That is not so, since Jesus said Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were alive; and Elijah and Moses showed up at the transfiguration. They get misled by:

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Who knows? The man who knows will do the right thing. The man who does not know is no better than the beast. The "soul" of man is like that of the beast -- unless the breath of life has been breathed into it. In Genesis, the animals are said to have soul; but man is said to be a "living soul" after the breath of life.

Jesus said something that refers to the four parts of man that correspond to fire, air, water and earth.

Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart <fire>, and with all thy soul <water>, and with all thy mind<air>, and with all thy strength<earth>: this is the first commandment.

Moses said only heart, soul, and strength. I think the reason is what the words mean in different languages. Soul can include the mind as well as the emotional part of man, depending on who's using the word.

I think my views also explain what Paul said about battling wickedness in high places. Each saint help cast down Satan by removing some of the places he has to stand. Every saint who finds his own salvation has also helped cleanse the heavens.

Willie T said:

Interesting, but I was specifically referring to "cloud" as it was used in that Scripture, "Coming-on-a-cloud" (or however it gets expressed in various different translations.) I think getting into all the many mentions of "cloud" just further confuses things.

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Do you? I'd like to know what a cloud is first myself.

To be honest with you, I wasn't sure what you meant by "coming on a cloud." Are you referring to the times the expression occurs in Revelation 14? Elsewhere it seems to be coming in a cloud or in clouds -- which is not the same thing to me.

Why not give your views on it?

VictoryinJesus said:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is a blessing which comes with grace, and overcomes the curse. Either a reproach or a foundation laid anew in The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Good overcomes evil. The blessing overcomes the curse. In He sets before us “a blessing” or “a curse”.

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Wonderful. You remind how John is shown the holy city coming down from Heaven prepared as a bride adorned for her husband after "Our Lady of Babylon" of dubious morals is dealt with and seen no more. It's almost like one disappeared and then the other appeared.

Willie T said:

Coming-on-a-cloud historically (Biblically) references judgement coming on people or a nation. (Isaiah 19:1 is an example.)
The expression is used in a similar way throughout the Old Testament (Isaiah 13:6; Micah 1:3-5; Psalms 97:2,3).

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And here: Psalm 22:14-18
[14] I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. [15] My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. [16] For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. [17] I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. [18] They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Isaiah 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

Yet He said: “behold, I make all things new.”
2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

VictoryinJesus said:

Consider Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

“a cloud received Him” out of their sight...and the great cloud of witnesses we are told of...those whom “receive” him in as One body, one mind, one voice ...in agreement in And for His great namesake...as Paul then said consider it ...now lay aside the weight and run.

Maybe Aline how he left “this world” yet could say “I will never leave nor forsake you” as those who receive him iin as that great cloud. John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

With his leaving having been received into a great cloud of witness to return again on or in “a cloud” .

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Yes, he appears in a cloud (or clouds) and leaves in a cloud. I read "cloud of witnesses" to be Christians already taken up to be with him.

In Acts, we see two angels who appeared as men with him; and one of the angels seemed a little surprised that the disciples didn't understand what was going on.

Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Relate that to Jesus' taking only three of them to his transfiguration. I doubt the others would have understood what they were seeing. Perhaps they wouldn't have seen or heard anything. I suppose that changed after Pentecost.

It is also possible for an angel to disappear by going upwards like fire. I think that angel is returning to the Third Heaven. (If returning to the Second Heaven, it's in a cloud.) Angels are said to be "of fire" in some places, "of light" in others. What is going on there is that they come from God in the form of light as return as fire moving upwards. One manifestation of the Holy Spirit is a "warm feeling" in the heart as if there is a gentle burning. People often say they feel their hearts are warm without knowing what it means; but it means Love is there, a manifestation of God. The men on the road to Emmaus noticed that. Some do when singing songs of praise. The angel in Judges was seen as going up in the flames. Things return to God by fire. Something of the earthly is being returned to Heaven. Hence no offering can rise to God without fire -- and it doesn't need physical fire which is a symbol of the true flames. The person worshiping God with a warm heart is offering Love to God, an acceptable sacrifice - from the heart.

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

The sacred flames are burning away impurities on the heart when that happens. When we are contrite, the Spirit can burn away flaws gently and we feel glad about it. Odd as it sounds, those flames in the heart can go out -- so they must be lighted again. Light comes down -- the heart can be set aflame again -- so the flames don't go out. That is one thing Jesus brought to the world as "the Light." People had hearts where the flames had gone out. By themselves, they could not relight them. He gives that light to everyone now.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

If people who had those flames once allow them to go out, they are like the foolish virgins. They may not be ready to meet the Bridegroom.

Speaking of fire reminds me of some of my favorite passages with the word "fervent."

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Willie T said:

Coming-on-a-cloud historically (Biblically) references judgement coming on people or a nation. (Isaiah 19:1 is an example.)
The expression is used in a similar way throughout the Old Testament (Isaiah 13:6; Micah 1:3-5; Psalms 97:2,3).

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Reading the passages, I see only one that has Jehovah "upon a cloud." I thought that was the subject.

Giuliano said:

So you do not think a day can be like a thousand years? Peter said it was, and I tell you the thousand year reign is the seventh day -- just as the era of the Flood of Noah was the second day. The third era began when dry land appeared -- just as it did in Genesis on the third day. What's the difficulty in seeing this?

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That idea has nothing to do with subject we've been discussing about the day of Christ's 2nd coming.

You do not believe the people who pierced him saw him return. You think they all died, awaiting the resurrection before they see him return? I thought the resurrection of the saints was before the 1000 year reign, and everyone else got resurrected after.

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No, that idea is whack! Jesus' coming is about His future return, AFTER... He had already ascended to The Father per Acts 1. It's crazy to think that His short 40 days appearance to His disciples (only) right after His resurrection was the 2nd coming! That idea is totally whack! And there's plenty of Scripture that declares what His 2nd coming is going to be like, and it certainly isn't just a short period of showing Himself to His disciples! You should read Revelation 19 sometime and believe it, instead of heeding false prophets.

Giuliano said:

John said the things he wrote were about to happen shortly. You want to chop the chapter up into past and future. I don't understand you. What you believe seems random to me. I am sorry to say I didn't read the rest of your post. What you're saying doesn't make sense to me.

While I have opinions about those passages, I feel sure you'd reject them, so I won't try.

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You do show your Biblical illiteracy, especially of The New Testament.

Christ's Book of Revelation is written in the method much like God's Old Testament prophets. It covers events past, present, and future. As a matter of fact, just about every Book of God's Word does that!

Giuliano said:

Yes, he appears in a cloud (or clouds) and leaves in a cloud. I read "cloud of witnesses" to be Christians already taken up to be with him.

In Acts, we see two angels who appeared as men with him; and one of the angels seemed a little surprised that the disciples didn't understand what was going on.

Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Relate that to Jesus' taking only three of them to his transfiguration. I doubt the others would have understood what they were seeing. Perhaps they wouldn't have seen or heard anything. I suppose that changed after Pentecost.

It is also possible for an angel to disappear by going upwards like fire. I think that angel is returning to the Third Heaven. (If returning to the Second Heaven, it's in a cloud.) Angels are said to be "of fire" in some places, "of light" in others. What is going on there is that they come from God in the form of light as return as fire moving upwards. One manifestation of the Holy Spirit is a "warm feeling" in the heart as if there is a gentle burning. People often say they feel their hearts are warm without knowing what it means; but it means Love is there, a manifestation of God. The men on the road to Emmaus noticed that. Some do when singing songs of praise. The angel in Judges was seen as going up in the flames. Things return to God by fire. Something of the earthly is being returned to Heaven. Hence no offering can rise to God without fire -- and it doesn't need physical fire which is a symbol of the true flames. The person worshiping God with a warm heart is offering Love to God, an acceptable sacrifice - from the heart.

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

The sacred flames are burning away impurities on the heart when that happens. When we are contrite, the Spirit can burn away flaws gently and we feel glad about it. Odd as it sounds, those flames in the heart can go out -- so they must be lighted again. Light comes down -- the heart can be set aflame again -- so the flames don't go out. That is one thing Jesus brought to the world as "the Light." People had hearts where the flames had gone out. By themselves, they could not relight them. He gives that light to everyone now.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

If people who had those flames once allow them to go out, they are like the foolish virgins. They may not be ready to meet the Bridegroom.

Speaking of fire reminds me of some of my favorite passages with the word "fervent."

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

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Makes me consider an odd passage that come up this morning:

Jeremiah 20:7-15 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me. [8] For since I spake, I cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the word of the Lord was made a reproach unto me, and a derision, daily. [9] Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay. [10] For I heard the defaming of many, fear on every side. Report, say they, and we will report it. All my familiars watched for my halting, saying, Peradventure he will be enticed, and we shall prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him. [11] But the Lord is with me as a mighty terrible one: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting confusion shall never be forgotten. [12] But, O Lord of hosts, that triest the righteous, and seest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto thee have I opened my cause. [13] Sing unto the Lord, praise ye the Lord : for he hath delivered the soul of the poor from the hand of evildoers. [14] Cursed be the day wherein I was born: let not the day wherein my mother bare me be blessed. [15] Cursed be the man who brought tidings to my father, saying, A man child is born unto thee; making him very glad.

What conflict! Conflict as Jonah had maybe even saying “But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.” But also speaks much of what is spoken “Cursed be the man who brought tidings to my father, saying, A man child is born unto thee; making him very glad.”

He set before us: “a blessing” or “a curse”

Genesis 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed ...

Zechariah 10:8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.

Ephesians 4:15-16
[15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: [16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Willie T said:

"Only one?" How many times does it have to be said?

The suppositions made from many statements in Revelation are seldom mentioned anywhere else, at all.

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Sorry, I was expecting more. Perhaps I read too much in your previous post that said, "Has anyone ever looked-up what "coming-on-the-clouds" meant in other parts of the Bible? (Scripture interprets Scripture, ya know.)"