Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

GodsGrace · Sep 17, 2019

Giuliano said:
It reminds me of what Solomon wrote, "There is nothing new under the sun." Christianity is no longer a source for moral guidance. The question I have is if humanity as a whole has improved over the centuries. I think it has.

Think about slavery. Many churches were in favor of it and fought the emancipation movement. After it could be seen that most people were fed up with slavery and saw it as degraded, most churches fell in line. We see the same principle at work with women's rights, and now it's about rights for gays. The world is, in some ways, becoming more civilized, and churches then play follow the lead of the will of the people. It would be wonderful if the churches had been at the forefront of these movements so they could have been implemented better and more easily from the beginning; as it was there was often stumbling around when slavery was outlawed, and there is still confusion in society over the rights of women.

I agree that we're becoming more civilized.
I remember reading a long time ago that the CC used to believe that men would become better and more civilized and more intelligent and wise as time went on and when the ultimate was achieved THIS would be the new earth. I can't prove this or even would know how to find a link to it, but anyway it doesn't teach this anymore. It's an old idea.
Apparently, by now, we know that this zenith will never be reached and Jesus does have to come back at some point in time.

But, yes, I agree that churches should be at the forefront.

GodsGrace · Sep 17, 2019

Reggie Belafonte said:
It's the Jews who were involved in peddling Slavery and Islam still is, you see when ever you see a woman being bought for a wife regardless it's how such worldly see others, everyone has their price in fact.

It was Jesus Christ who put such into the true regard about Marriage and the Protestants who worked to undermine that and the rot started from there, to the creep show we have nowadays. slaves to their lust for they lack Jesus, for if they truly did love Jesus they would not divorce as such is due to a hardness of the heart in fact.

Slavery is a condition of all people and it has always been the case and anyone who is a Slave to Sin is under such and is condemned a Slave in fact, all people who are not born again are Slaves, that's the key.
So don't be surprised that under Sin that sin abounds all the more, regardless be you in chains or not.

The Jews were always tampering within the Church history hidden within, as is the same today. just look only the Jews were allowed to lend money, now who gave them that right back in them days ? I wonder !

Man nowadays smugly thinks he has put a handle on Slavery, they are only under strong elusions or inept.

No one said slavery doesn't still exist.
But it is NOT commonly accepted by the majority of the world's population.
It IS seen as an evil whereas it was previously seen as a normal condition of humanity.
This IS progress.

Giuliano · Sep 17, 2019

GodsGrace said:
No one said slavery doesn't still exist.
But it is NOT commonly accepted by the majority of the world's population.
It IS seen as an evil whereas it was previously seen as a normal condition of humanity.
This IS progress.

It still exists in the USA but almost no one cares. A huge percentage of women involved in prostitution are forced into it; and it's not Jews or Muslims doing it.

Giuliano · Sep 17, 2019

GodsGrace said:
I agree that we're becoming more civilized.
I remember reading a long time ago that the CC used to believe that men would become better and more civilized and more intelligent and wise as time went on and when the ultimate was achieved THIS would be the new earth. I can't prove this or even would know how to find a link to it, but anyway it doesn't teach this anymore. It's an old idea.
Apparently, by now, we know that this zenith will never be reached and Jesus does have to come back at some point in time.

But, yes, I agree that churches should be at the forefront.

I have a book about Joachim da Fiore which I never finished reading; and I moved things about and can't find it now; but what you write about sounds a lot like what he taught.

Philip James · Sep 17, 2019

Giuliano said:
You seem to think there can be no further development of truth. . . .

The Truth can develop in clarity, in depth, in understanding.... It cannot contradict itself.

The world has chosen to celebrate evil as good, the Church cannot do so...

Peace!

GodsGrace · Sep 17, 2019

Giuliano said:
I have a book about Joachim da Fiore which I never finished reading; and I moved things about and can't find it now; but what you write about sounds a lot like what he taught.

I have access to Catholic scholars --- 2 to be precise.
I still have to ask about levitation being demonic because someone mentioned St. Teresa levitating and brought this up.

I will also ask about Joachim da Fiore and this idea of man becoming perfect with time.
I can't remember much about it but thought, at the time, that it was an interesting idea but that it would not happen that way.

BreadOfLife · Sep 17, 2019

GodsGrace said:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go study the catechism some more.

Why?? Being divorced does NOT make one ineligible to receive the Eucharist.
Being divorced and remarried does . . .

BreadOfLife · Sep 17, 2019

GodsGrace said:
Trust me,,,I know what the CC teaches.

Actually, you don't - and it's been proven SEVERAL times . . .

BreadOfLife · Sep 17, 2019

Giuliano said:
I admitted my mistake. Yes, go ahead beat me with a wet noodle if that would give you a thrill.

It still doesn't change the facts in the story. There was no anti-Catholic bias. Why don't you admit that?

What’s this obsession with being beaten with a wet noodle??
Besides – that entire website is doctrinally anti-Catholic.

BreadOfLife · Sep 17, 2019

Giuliano said:
You seem to think there can be no further development of truth. . . .

Sin will ALWAYS be sinful.
That will ALWAYS be true. . .

Marymog · Sep 17, 2019

GodsGrace said:
Usually one uses the term UFFA when they're frustrated about something.
I've been throught this with BoL and now with you.

I have trouble understanding how you could not know that a change has taken place.
And an important change. If Francis could change this...he could change anything.

This is why DOCTRINE cannot be changed...because then one wonders if the church was right BEFORE the change or AFTER the change.

But doctrine has been changed and thus all the turmoil.
He's going to do more. Wait and see.

I never said we were arguing.
I just don't have a lot of time to spend here....
Must go veg out...I'm tired. Had company for dinner and must finish in the kitchen.

I love you like a sister in the Lord even if we don't agree.
We don't have to agree on everything.

Thank you GG.

I sincerely apologize. When you said, "I'm not arguing with you anymore" I inferred that you felt like we were arguing.

I quoted Church Law on this matter to unequivocally show you that Church law hasn't changed. You referenced a phone call and an article in the newspaper. The Pope CAN NOT change Church law/doctrine just by saying what HE thinks it should be.

I hope you enjoyed your vegging out time.......We all need that sometime.

Sister Mary

Marymog · Sep 17, 2019

Giuliano said:
It seems some Catholic bishops may disagree with you. . . .

Individual Bishops personal beliefs do not change Church doctrine.

You do realize this problem you are speaking of is greater in the Protestant churches?

Marymog · Sep 17, 2019

GodsGrace said:
Trust me,,,I know what the CC teaches.

Ummmm.....I already showed you that you were wrong.

Does the number 916 ring a bell??

Giuliano · Sep 17, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
What’s this obsession with being beaten with a wet noodle??

You seem to enjoy bashing people. Wet noodles would be a way for you to get a greater thrill without much risk of injury to me.

Besides – that entire website is doctrinally anti-Catholic.

You tempt me to post from it more. I wouldn't want you to run out things to call lies when your whole purpose in life seems to be combating things you perceive as lies.

Giuliano · Sep 17, 2019

Marymog said:
Individual Bishops personal beliefs do not change Church doctrine.

If they can get a majority, they can change almost anything and then declare the losing side schismatics, heretics, or whatever. The losing side can also claim they're the pure ones and start their own church. Several ecumenical councils resulted in new churches being formed.

You do realize this problem you are speaking of is greater in the Protestant churches?

That could be since Protestants in general feel free to believe whatever they want. What's interesting about the Catholic Church is its claim to Apostolic Succession. How can bishops, properly consecrated and full of the Holy Spirit, hold contradictory views?

Giuliano · Sep 17, 2019

Philip James said:
The Truth can develop in clarity, in depth, in understanding.... It cannot contradict itself.

That would depend on how you define "contradiction," wouldn't it?

The world has chosen to celebrate evil as good, the Church cannot do so...

Peace!

In a hundred years, what you see as evil may be seen as good; and most people may look back and wonder how people in our age could be so blind and backwards.

GodsGrace · Sep 17, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
Why?? Being divorced does NOT make one ineligible to receive the Eucharist.
Being divorced and remarried does . . .

NO!!!!!!!

And what did we discuss for pages?
Being divorced also makes one ineligible to receive IF,,,,IF,,,,IF?

Go away BoL.
I don't need you teaching me anything.

GodsGrace · Sep 17, 2019

Marymog said:
Thank you GG.

I sincerely apologize. When you said, "I'm not arguing with you anymore" I inferred that you felt like we were arguing.

I quoted Church Law on this matter to unequivocally show you that Church law hasn't changed. You referenced a phone call and an article in the newspaper. The Pope CAN NOT change Church law/doctrine just by saying what HE thinks it should be.

I hope you enjoyed your vegging out time.......We all need that sometime.

Sister Mary

I might have said arguing...sorry if I did.
I'm here late at night and I'm not always very alert.

I know many traditional catholics that are having a problem with this...
I would have agreed with you 5 years ago...
but not anymore.

But,,,,peace!

GodsGrace · Sep 17, 2019

Marymog said:
Ummmm.....I already showed you that you were wrong.

Does the number 916 ring a bell??

No M,,,916 doesn't ring a bell.
Should I be looking at that post?

I also showed you that YOU are wrong.

My friend C accepted that a doctrine had been changed right away.
Mr friend L took some time and denied it...but she came around.

Not to mention the priests I know....I live in a small place.
The new Bishop down in the city (our Bishop) is liberal and is happy with the Pope's beliefs.

So I GIVE YOU MY PERMISSION to believe as you will and whatever makes you happy.
Consider me as one of those Catholics that believes a doctrine has been changed.
Surely you know a few.

A doctrine involves teaching FROM THE BIBLE AND JESUS....
Corinthians states that we are to examine ourselves before communion,
and be worthy....
THIS is a teaching, not from the church, but from scripture, from the bible.
The teaching from scripture CANNOT BE CHANGED...
And yet remarrieds are receiving communion. (not in every case).
As Amores Laetitia states...it is left to the pastor of the church and the couple.

WHEN did you ever hear of this before this pope and Am. Lat???
NEVER.
We cannot receive communion while in mortal sin.

Giuliano · Sep 17, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
Sin will ALWAYS be sinful.
That will ALWAYS be true. . .

Are you forgetting what you believe about the keys given to Peter?

Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

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