Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[GodsGrace]

Asking what you believe is getting carried away??? Hmmmm.......

Since you believe in the Real Presence it sounds like you agree with the CC on this matter: A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible. (CIC 916)

Canon Law Mary

Correct.

Except the above is NOT what Pope Francis believes regarding remarrieds.

AND

If the sin is ON-GOING, it CANNOT be forgiven. (in confession).

 

[Marymog]

UFFA!

The present Pope changed DOCTRINE in Amores Laetitia.
And I'm not posting it again.

YOU should know what chapter 8 says as much as I do...
YOU should know what the footnote says as much as I do...

If you think allowing persons in mortal sin to receive communion is not a change in doctrine,,,then so be it.

And I refer you back to post #1279 to help clear up your confusion.

What does UFFA mean?

Curious Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

Funny that you try to teach me what a mortal sin is.

But let's go thru it: CAPS ARE MY WORDS.
To commit a mortal sin 3 conditions are necessary:

1. Commit an act that is objectively grave.
FORNICATION IS OBJECTIVELY GRAVE.
SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE IS A MORTAL SIN AS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES.
IF A PERSON IS IN A SEXUAL SITUATION AND DOES NOT PLAN ON CHANGING...HE CANNOT EVEN BE FORGIVEN OF IT.

2. Have knowledge that what he is about to commit is a grave sin.
IS THERE A CATHOLIC PERSON THAT DOES NOT KNOW THE PRE-MARITAL SEX IS A SIN? DO YOU WONDER HOW MANY TIMES A PRIEST HEARS THIS IN CONFESSION?
DO YOU DOUBT THAT PRE-CANA DOES NOT TEACH THIS?
DO YOU DOUBT THAT COUPLES ABOUT TO BE MARRIED TO NOT NEED CONFESSION??

3. Freely his will in carrying out that gravely immoral act.
I DO BELIEVE PEOPLE HAVE SEX BECAUSE OF THEIR FREE WILL CHOICE, UNLESS THERE IS RAPE INVOLVED.

Gosh. I hate having to talk about this.

And I will not continue....
if you think it's OK for catholic remarrieds to receive communion ... that's fine with me.

I agee with the pope that this DOCTRINE did need looking into.
Too bad Jesus does not agree with the pope.
Matthew 5:32

According to the situation of the woman in the article you linked about Pope Francis's phone call - I'm NOT sure what your point is.

The woman is not divorce and remarried. The article doesn't give the details of the husbands former marriage. If it was only a civil marriage and civil divorce - then she didn't do anything wrong and SHOULD be allowed to receive the Eucharist.

Sooooooo - WHAT'S your point??

 

[GodsGrace]

And I refer you back to post #1279 to help clear up your confusion.

What does UFFA mean?

Curious Mary

I'm not confused Mary.
UFFA means
UFFA.

Time to go watch a good movie.

You're a real traditionalist.
You're going to have more problems coming up real soon.
Stay tuned and get ready.

I'm not arguing with you anymore.
I've come to understand it's sinful...
we should not be arguing amongst ourselves.
We've stated what we believe...that's it.

• 

 

[GodsGrace]

According to the situation of the woman in the article you linked about Pope Francis's phone call - I'm NOT sure what your point is.

The woman is not divorce and remarried. The article doesn't give the details of the husbands former marriage. If it was only a civil marriage and civil divorce - then she didn't do anything wrong and SHOULD be allowed to receive the Eucharist.

Sooooooo - WHAT'S your point??

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go study the catechism some more.

Matthew 5:31-32

 

[Marymog]

[QUOTE="GodsGrace, post: 624688, member: 7593
If the sin is ON-GOING, it CANNOT be forgiven. (in confession).[/QUOTE]
You make a good point.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I'm not confused Mary.
UFFA means
UFFA.

Time to go watch a good movie.

You're a real traditionalist.
You're going to have more problems coming up real soon.
Stay tuned and get ready.

I'm not arguing with you anymore.
I've come to understand it's sinful...
we should not be arguing amongst ourselves.
We've stated what we believe...that's it.

• 

I never thought we were arguing.

I was telling you what the CC teaches and providing proof if it. You were disagreeing with me.

Still don't know what UFFA means....

 

[GodsGrace]

I never thought we were arguing.

I was telling you what the CC teaches and providing proof if it. You were disagreeing with me.

Still don't know what UFFA means....

Usually one uses the term UFFA when they're frustrated about something.
I've been throught this with BoL and now with you.

I have trouble understanding how you could not know that a change has taken place.
And an important change. If Francis could change this...he could change anything.

This is why DOCTRINE cannot be changed...because then one wonders if the church was right BEFORE the change or AFTER the change.

But doctrine has been changed and thus all the turmoil.
He's going to do more. Wait and see.

I never said we were arguing.
I just don't have a lot of time to spend here....
Must go veg out...I'm tired. Had company for dinner and must finish in the kitchen.

I love you like a sister in the Lord even if we don't agree.
We don't have to agree on everything.

 

[GodsGrace]

I never thought we were arguing.

I was telling you what the CC teaches and providing proof if it. You were disagreeing with me.

Still don't know what UFFA means....

Trust me,,,I know what the CC teaches.

 

[Giuliano]

Ummmm, YOU dishonestly referred to it as a "Catholic site".
It was anything BUT . . .

Beat me with a wet noodle for thinking "novena" meant they were a Catholic site.

That should motivate at least 100 people to send you PMs in support.

 

[Giuliano]

Sure. It starts slow and gets slowly worse.
Euthanasia is next.

The cc has "invited" gays into the church.
I agree with this because they should not be excluded...
BUT...I also see it as a first step.

I'm feeling more and more like the church is becoming like the world instead of the other way around. Not necessarily the CC but all of them...

It reminds me of what Solomon wrote, "There is nothing new under the sun." Christianity is no longer a source for moral guidance. The question I have is if humanity as a whole has improved over the centuries. I think it has.

Think about slavery. Many churches were in favor of it and fought the emancipation movement. After it could be seen that most people were fed up with slavery and saw it as degraded, most churches fell in line. We see the same principle at work with women's rights, and now it's about rights for gays. The world is, in some ways, becoming more civilized, and churches then play follow the lead of the will of the people. It would be wonderful if the churches had been at the forefront of these movements so they could have been implemented better and more easily from the beginning; as it was there was often stumbling around when slavery was outlawed, and there is still confusion in society over the rights of women.

 

[Giuliano]

Ummmm, YOU dishonestly referred to it as a "Catholic site".
It was anything BUT . . .

I admitted my mistake. Yes, go ahead beat me with a wet noodle if that would give you a thrill.

It still doesn't change the facts in the story. There was no anti-Catholic bias. Why don't you admit that?

 

[Philip James]

and now it's about rights for gays. The world is, in some ways, becoming more civilized, and churches then play follow the lead of the will of the people. It would be wonderful if the churches had been at the forefront of these movements so they could have been implemented better and more easily from the beginning

?? Are you saying the churches and governments have been right to celebrate homosexual behaviour?

I hope I have been reading that wrong...

This is of course one reason why the world will justify confiscating Church property and persecuting its members...
The lgbqxte68dj (we are legion?) agenda will fail at changing the Church to embrace it and the gnashing of teeth will begin..

Peace be with you!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Giuliano]

?? Are you saying the churches and governments have been right to celebrate homosexual behaviour?

I hope I have been reading that wrong...

This is of course one reason why the world will justify confiscating Church property and persecuting its members...
The lgbqxte68dj (we are legion?) agenda will fail at changing the Church to embrace it and the gnashing of teeth will begin..

Peace be with you!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

I see having gays in stable relationships as a lot better than driving them underground, engaging in promiscuous sex with multiple partners and sometimes with underaged kids. When I read the New Testament, it's "lust" that gets condemned. I certainly do think that men who get married should not be having sex with other men out of lust. That's surely a sin.

 

[Philip James]

I certainly do think that men who get married should not be having sex with other men out of lust. That's surely a sin.

Men having sex with men or women with women for any reason is abominable...

To suggest that they can have some kind of 'marriage' is an insult to the image of the union of Christ and His Church.

The teaching of the Church that homosexual behavioir is intrinsicley disordered will not (can not!) Be changed...

Peace!

 

[Giuliano]

Men having sex with men or women with women for any reason is abominable...

To suggest that they can have some kind of 'marriage' is an insult to the image of the union of Christ and His Church.

The teaching of the Church that homosexual behavioir is intrinsicley disordered will not (can not!) Be changed...

Peace!

It seems some Catholic bishops may disagree with you. . . .

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

It reminds me of what Solomon wrote, "There is nothing new under the sun." Christianity is no longer a source for moral guidance. The question I have is if humanity as a whole has improved over the centuries. I think it has.

Think about slavery. Many churches were in favor of it and fought the emancipation movement. After it could be seen that most people were fed up with slavery and saw it as degraded, most churches fell in line. We see the same principle at work with women's rights, and now it's about rights for gays. The world is, in some ways, becoming more civilized, and churches then play follow the lead of the will of the people. It would be wonderful if the churches had been at the forefront of these movements so they could have been implemented better and more easily from the beginning; as it was there was often stumbling around when slavery was outlawed, and there is still confusion in society over the rights of women.

It's the Jews who were involved in peddling Slavery and Islam still is, you see when ever you see a woman being bought for a wife regardless it's how such worldly see others, everyone has their price in fact.

It was Jesus Christ who put such into the true regard about Marriage and the Protestants who worked to undermine that and the rot started from there, to the creep show we have nowadays. slaves to their lust for they lack Jesus, for if they truly did love Jesus they would not divorce as such is due to a hardness of the heart in fact.

Slavery is a condition of all people and it has always been the case and anyone who is a Slave to Sin is under such and is condemned a Slave in fact, all people who are not born again are Slaves, that's the key.
So don't be surprised that under Sin that sin abounds all the more, regardless be you in chains or not.

The Jews were always tampering within the Church history hidden within, as is the same today. just look only the Jews were allowed to lend money, now who gave them that right back in them days ? I wonder !

Man nowadays smugly thinks he has put a handle on Slavery, they are only under strong elusions or inept.

 

[Philip James]

It seems some Catholic bishops may disagree with you. . . .

Thats on their heads. They have no excuse of ignorance.

And any sheep lost on account of them will be on their heads as well..

Why do you continue to point out that there are enemies within as well as without the Church, as if this is something new?

The Holy Spirit will sort it out as always...
But what are we to say? Take this cup away?
No, the Church must follow in the passion of her Lord... We cannot compromise the Truth, whatever the cost...

Peace.

Help us and defend us O Lord, preserve us from the snares of the enemy..

 

[Giuliano]

It's the Jews who were involved in peddling Slavery and Islam still is, you see when ever you see a woman being bought for a wife regardless it's how such worldly see others, everyone has their price in fact.

It was Jesus Christ who put such into the true regard about Marriage and the Protestants who worked to undermine that and the rot started from there, to the creep show we have nowadays. slaves to their lust for they lack Jesus, for if they truly did love Jesus they would not divorce as such is due to a hardness of the heart in fact.

Slavery is a condition of all people and it has always been the case and anyone who is a Slave to Sin is under such and is condemned a Slave in fact, all people who are not born again are Slaves, that's the key.
So don't be surprised that under Sin that sin abounds all the more, regardless be you in chains or not.

The Jews were always tampering within the Church history hidden within, as is the same today. just look only the Jews were allowed to lend money, now who gave them that right back in them days ? I wonder !

Man nowadays smugly thinks he has put a handle on Slavery, they are only under strong elusions or inept.

I fear you weren't listening during your history lessons.

 

[Giuliano]

Thats on their heads. They have no excuse of ignorance.

You seem to think there can be no further development of truth. . . .

And any sheep lost on account of them will be on their heads as well..

Why do you continue to point out that there are enemies within as well as without the Church, as if this is something new?

Whoever wins gets to claim orthodoxy while the losers get labeled enemies, heretics and schismatics. It's nothing new.

The Holy Spirit will sort it out as always...
But what are we to say? Take this cup away?
No, the Church must follow in the passion of her Lord... We cannot compromise the Truth, whatever the cost...

Peace.

Help us and defend us O Lord, preserve us from the snares of the enemy..

You may be placing yourself in a position of judging church hierarchy. What if you are wrong and the Spirit is still leading into more truth?