Must Christians obey government

Rita said:

I equally don’t think it’s right to condemn someone who will take up arms.
Many Christians gave up their lives for others so that they could live in freedom, some of that freedom you yourself have experienced. Rita

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We're they Christian though? If protestant and Catholics are Christian why do they kill each other in the name of a human government. Jesus doesn't teach that. Do you think your way is better than the way of your Lord and King?

kcnalp said:

How is that being a coward? No doubt the majority would agree with you and severely persecute those who refuse to kill innocent people for filthy rich CORRUPT politicians. Seems cowardly to me to join the mob.

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There is nothing wrong with fighting for what's right. Christ whipped people in the temple, He stood for what's right. The problem is most us are to lazy to take a stand and there are no innocent people in war.

You all can believe what you all want. I will be me, I am sick and tried of having to act and be someone I am not. I will e proud to shoot and die for my freedom nd country I will not go down a coward. If you all hate me, you all hate me

historyb said:

There is nothing wrong with fighting for what's right. Christ whipped people in the temple, He stood for what's right. The problem is most us are to lazy to take a stand and there are no innocent people in war.

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But what's "right"? What politicians tell you? They're some of the worst liars who ever lived. You gonna kill because they say it's right?

You all can believe what you all want. I will be me, I am sick and tried of having to act and be someone I am not. I will e proud to shoot and die for my freedom nd country I will not go down a coward. If you all hate me, you all hate me

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Your scenario isn't what the NT teaches at all.
Matthew 5:44 (NKJV)
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,

Praise the glorious LORD JESUS .
many anabaptists too did not take up arms and it was not out of cowardice either .
I was in the marines years ago . I did carry a weapon , but it was before i became Christian .
OH but now we are in the army of the GLORIOUS LORD . Our weapons are Spiritual . PRAISE be to the GLORIOUS LORD JESUS .
Let all praise HIS NAME .

kcnalp said:

But what's "right"? What politicians tell you? They're some of the worst liars who ever lived. You gonna kill because they say it's right?

Your scenario isn't what the NT teaches at all.
Matthew 5:44 (NKJV)
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,

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Nope I am going to kill when the politicians think they can oppress us. I will kill for my freedom, family, country, and my God

kcnalp said:

But what's "right"? What politicians tell you? They're some of the worst liars who ever lived. You gonna kill because they say it's right?

Your scenario isn't what the NT teaches at all.
Matthew 5:44 (NKJV)
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,

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I'm pretty sure that verse has nothing to do with fighting against an oppressive government.

BARNEY BRIGHT said:

We're they Christian though? If protestant and Catholics are Christian why do they kill each other in the name of a human government. Jesus doesn't teach that. Do you think your way is better than the way of your Lord and King?

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So you are now presuming that no Christian could go to war unless he was not a true believer. What a pathetic and judgmental way of looking at it.
I am a women and I have never been asked or expected to take up arms - and I live in a country that doesn’t have guns in every household. So it’s not ‘ my way ‘ I was defending. I believe that it is not wrong to take up arms in the defence of others - so for me it is the motive behind why it is done.
My point was really about you sitting In sitting in judgement of others just because they reach a different conclusion to you. Rita

Rita said:

So you are now presuming that no Christian could go to war unless he was not a true believer. What a pathetic and judgmental way of looking at it.
I am a women and I have never been asked or expected to take up arms - and I live in a country that doesn’t have guns in every household. So it’s not ‘ my way ‘ I was defending. I believe that it is not wrong to take up arms in the defence of others - so for me it is the motive behind why it is done.
My point was really about you sitting In sitting in judgement of others just because they reach a different conclusion to you. Rita

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What, you believe Jesus taught his disciples to kill each other in wars because that's how you say we should show love for each other. People amaze me that they think a protestant killing a protestant and a Catholic killing a Catholic is showing love for each other cause that's how they believe Christians show love for each other.
As for the motive when it comes to wars if you think it hasn't been about power and greed you go ahead and tell that to yourself.

Christians are not authorized to fight against their enemies. The apostle Paul wrote to fellow Christians: “If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. Do not avenge yourselves.”—Romans 12:18, 19.

Instead of sending his followers to war, Jesus told them: “Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens.” (Matthew 5:44, 45) Even when the nation in which they live goes to war, Christians should remain neutral, “no part of the world.” (John 15:19) If God wants his worshippers in all nations to love their enemies and to remain separate from the world, how could he support either side of a violent conflict today?

“My Kingdom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.”—John 18:36.

Jesus was the greatest man that ever lived on this planet, yet he tells us that the kingdom (Government) we are to be loyal to is that Messianic kingdom he is King of and we are not to fight and kill for that kingdom like people kill for their human government. The nations belong to Satan, fighting for a human government is fighting for Satan.

BARNEY BRIGHT said:

What, you believe Jesus taught his disciples to kill each other in wars because that's how you say we should show love for each other. People amaze me that they think a protestant killing a protestant and a Catholic killing a Catholic is showing love for each other cause that's how they believe Christians show love for each other.
As for the motive when it comes to wars if you think it hasn't been about power and greed you go ahead and tell that to yourself.

Christians are not authorized to fight against their enemies. The apostle Paul wrote to fellow Christians: “If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. Do not avenge yourselves.”—Romans 12:18, 19.

Instead of sending his followers to war, Jesus told them: “Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens.” (Matthew 5:44, 45) Even when the nation in which they live goes to war, Christians should remain neutral, “no part of the world.” (John 15:19) If God wants his worshippers in all nations to love their enemies and to remain separate from the world, how could he support either side of a violent conflict today?

“My Kingdom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.”—John 18:36.

Jesus was the greatest man that ever lived on this planet, yet he tells us that the kingdom (Government) we are to be loyal to is that Messianic kingdom he is King of and we are not to fight and kill for that kingdom like people kill for their human government. The nations belong to Satan, fighting for a human government is fighting for Satan.

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I will respond to this tomorrow Barney , it’s been a long day and I am tired. I need to look at the verses you have quoted. although i reflected on the subject years ago when I did my ethics course.
Rita x

historyb said:

Nope I am going to kill when the politicians think they can oppress us. I will kill for my freedom, family, country, and my God

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Go ahead and kill. You won't find any excuse for it in the NT.

teamventure said:

I'm pretty sure that verse has nothing to do with fighting against an oppressive government.

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They're not your enemies?

Matthew 5:44 (NKJV)
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,

Rita said:

I will respond to this tomorrow Barney , it’s been a long day and I am tired. I need to look at the verses you have quoted. although i reflected on the subject years ago when I did my ethics course.
Rita x

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Actually Barney, I will not be coming back and debated with you, but just want to explain a few things. I worked through my own views on war many years ago. I do not hold that all wars are just, but I will say that in the quote from Romans it does state ‘ if possible ‘ so it is not an absolute on the subject. Also my post was in reference to the Second World War, which was not rooted in revenge in any way. We went to war in defence of others who were under attack from Hitler. That to me is a just war, and I do believe that when all other avenues to secure peace have failed ,then severe actions need taking. I do not agree with other wars as I do believe the motives were about revenge.
I don’t know if I could ever be a soldier in an army, but I have read many testimonies of God working within the situations in the Second World War, and I just do not have it in me to not respect the men and women who did give up there lives. It’s your prerogative to disagree with me, but I will not be arguing with you. I didn’t agree with your attitude towards historyb, just as I didn’t agree with his attitude to you. That was the only reason I responded to this thread.
Yes, we are part of the kingdom of God, but we still live in this world and are affected by the events that unfold around us, we follow government in all kinds of ways. Each of us must seek the Lord with regards to what we make a stand against.
Rita

kcnalp said:

Go ahead and kill. You won't find any excuse for it in the NT.

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Fine you want your loved ones slaughtered and murdered as you stand by because you became a coward, fine by me

historyb said:

Fine you want your loved ones slaughtered and murdered as you stand by because you became a coward, fine by me

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Doesn't God answer your prayers?
Luke 11:2-4 (NKJV)
2 So He said to them, "When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. 3 Give us day by day our daily bread. 4 And forgive us our sins, For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one."

kcnalp said:

They're not your enemies?

Matthew 5:44 (NKJV)
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,

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Shouldn't there be a distinction between an enemy that seeks to imprison and kill you and a guy who ripped you off $10 at saturdays poker game?

teamventure said:

Shouldn't there be a distinction between an enemy that seeks to imprison and kill you and a guy who ripped you off $10 at saturdays poker game?

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Not really. Jesus didn't make a distinction.

kcnalp said:

Not really. Jesus didn't make a distinction.

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Fair enough, but don't you know that there is a distinction between the verse about loving YOUR PERSONAL ENEMIES and going to war to protect your freedom?

teamventure said:

Fair enough, but don't you know that there is a distinction between the verse about loving YOUR PERSONAL ENEMIES and going to war to protect your freedom?

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You would kill innocent people for lying politicians?

kcnalp said:

You would kill innocent people for lying politicians?

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No, I would be an innocent person fighting back against lying politicians, but I'm not a fighter, just a lover so it's all hyperbole.