Either way, the demonstration was for explaining the use of theophory. Please don't tell me that the support for your argument is based on one incidental, verb tense construct?You erred in translation. Immanuel is not "God is with us", but "God with us".
Mat_1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Matthew, inspired of the Third Person, the Holy Ghost, shows clearly that Jesus is JEHOVAH the Son.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Jesus, literally translated to "JEHOVAH Saves", which is found in the OT. JEHOVAH the Son came down personally, even as He had with Abraham and with Moses, but this time something much greater was to occur. The Son was to take on our fallen flesh nature.
Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
Gen 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
Gen 18:33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
What do you make of these texts and others which speak of Jesus JEHOVAH [H3444 H3068]?
Genesis 49:18 HOT - לישׁועתך קויתי יהוה׃
Genesis 49:18 HOT Translit. - liyshûät'khä qiûiytiy y'hwäh
Exodus 14:13 HOT - ויאמר משׁה אל־העם אל־תיראו התיצבו וראו את־ישׁועת יהוה אשׁר־יעשׂה לכם היום כי אשׁר ראיתם את־מצרים היום לא תספו לראתם עוד עד־עולם׃
Exodus 14:13 HOT Translit. - waYomer mosheh el-hääm al-Tiyräû hit'yatz'vû ûr'û et-y'shûat y'hwäh ásher-yaáseh läkhem haYôm Kiy ásher r'iytem et-mitz'rayim haYôm lo tošiyfû lir'otäm ôd ad-ôläm
The "et" or "את" is the Alpeh Tau, the Alpha Omega of Hebrew, the First and Last letter, the Author and Finisher.
2 Chronicles 20:17 HOT - לא לכם להלחם בזאת התיצבו עמדו וראו את־ישׁועת יהוה עמכם יהודה וירושׁלם אל־תיראו ואל־תחתו מחר צאו לפניהם ויהוה עמכם׃
2 Chronicles 20:17 HOT Translit. - lo läkhem l'hiLächëm Bäzot hit'yaTZ'vû im'dû ûr'û et-y'shûat y'hwäh iMäkhem y'hûdäh wiyrûshälaim al-Tiyr'û w'al-TëchaTû mächär tz'û lif'nëyhem wayhwäh iMäkhem
Jonah 2:9 (2:10) HOT - ואני בקול תודה אזבחה־לך אשׁר נדרתי אשׁלמה ישׁועתה ליהוה׃
Jonah 2:9 HOT Translit. - waániy B'qôl Tôdäh ez'B'chäh-Läkh' ásher nädar'Tiy áshaLëmäh y'shûätäh layhwäh š
Psalms 119:174 HOT - תאבתי לישׁועתך יהוה ותורתך שׁעשׁעי׃
Psalms 119:174 HOT Translit. - Täav'Tiy liyshûät'khä y'hwäh w'tôrät'khä shaáshuäy
What then do you think of the following?
Scripture [KJB] from Genesis 1:1 :
Genesis 1:1 reads in Hebrew - בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃
Genesis 2:4 reads in Hebrew - אלה תולדות השׁמים והארץ בהבראם ביום עשׂות יהוה אלהים ארץ ושׁמים׃
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Either way, the demonstration was for explaining the use of theophory. Please don't tell me that the support for your argument is based on one incidental, verb tense construct?
101G
Well-Known Member
To ALL, and anyone,
"Is the Lord Jesus the Arm of God", yes or no
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
"Is the Lord Jesus the Arm of God", yes or no
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Who has the misunderstandings? I asked you why would you correlate the incomprehensible with the use of theophory, as opposed to the predominant history of the Israelites. Who has the misunderstanding. Then you, in a casual manner, claim that the almighty God got slaughtered by His creation. And then, without even addressing the absurdity of the concept, you jump to the circular conclusion by stating that 'that's what the Bible says'. Who the heck has the misunderstanding, ...of both Scripture and rationality?
Stop the nonsense. Every response that you gave was based on a presupposition that Jesus was God. Theophory is prevalent throughout the Bible which was proven, irrespective of the context. And then you blaspheme God by claiming that it's entirely plausible that He become human, to get humiliated, mocked, abused and then killed by his own creation.
You clearly have no understanding of God's transcendence, purity, immortality, wisdom or dignity.
And then your absurd response is nothing more than circular reasoning - 'well, that's what the Bible says'. Maybe you haven't a clue what the Bible actually says?
Does that include the wrist and the hands also, plus the shoulder? If so, then maybe.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
101G
Well-Known Member
Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."
Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
now since you two are trying to be funny.... and you are... (smile).. lol. can either of you two explain how our Lord Jesus is the ARM of God as a separate person
or if he's the Same one Person....
and being ignorant of anthropomorphism, want get you any points. ...
YIKES!now your funny answers please......
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Oh, I "asserted" nothing. I "demonstrated irrefutably" (which is why you didn't bother to try) that the Son of the Father is Michael, even as all of the Reformers taught, and those before them. The only reason why those churches which came out from them no longer do, is because they are all crawling back to their "mother" (Revelation 17) because they have long ago been infiltrated by the counter-Reformation (Jesuits), etc, and ceremonialism, sacramentism, etc:
Rev_17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Romanism and Lutherans - http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html
Romanism and Anglicans - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10368140/Catholic-confession-is-good-for-the-soul-says-
Archbishop-of-Canterbury.html
Romanism and Methodists, Reformed, &c - "... The World Methodist Council adopted the Declaration on 18 July 2006.[2][3] The World Communion of Reformed Churches (representing the "80 million members of Congregational, Presbyterian, Reformed, United, Uniting, and Waldensian churches"), adopted the Declaration in 2017.[4] ..." - Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification - Wikipedia
Romanism and Waldenses - Pope Francis Asks Forgiveness For Catholic Church's Persecution Of Waldensians | HuffPost
Romanism and Evangelicals [Tony Palmer, Kenneth Copeland, etc] - Roman Catholics Evangelicals Tony Palmer - Yahoo Canada Search Results
Romanism and State [Jerry Brown [Jesuit], etc] - Jerry Brown Jesuit - Yahoo Canada Search Results
....ignorant of anthropomorphism, was that rhetorical? What's your definition of anthropomorphism - literalism?Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."
Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
now since you two are trying to be funny.... and you are... (smile).. lol. can either of you two explain how our Lord Jesus is the ARM of God as a separate person
or if he's the Same one Person....
and being ignorant of anthropomorphism, want get you any points. ...
now your funny answers please......
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
If Cyrus, during the reign of Persia, was considered God's messiah, and that God can call Moses a god, or that God Himself can be called either a rock, or jealous, then what kind of exegesis are you performing here if Jesus was called the 'arm of God'? Was not Joshua, Samson and David, also the 'arms of God' as far as what is meant by the connotation? Is not God a Saviour in one sense, and Jesus a saviour to mankind in another sense, and Gideon and Jephthah saviours to the Israelites in another sense?
Don't even try to build a whole Christology or Theology based on an analogy, anthropomorphism, or circumstantial evidence.
I think that you should quit your mystical, pagan nonsense, and start getting serious about how you attempt to honour and revere God's Word.
God does not have characters or entities playing out His Word incognito. He's not tying to confuse or play games with people. Moses was Moses, Elijah was Elijah, David was David, Job was Job, Jeremiah was not Isaiah, Gabriel was Gabriel, And Jesus was Jesus - not Michael nor his Father, God.
You sound ridiculously absurd, eh?
No, it is the family JEHOVAH (Like family Jones, like Father Jones, Son Jones and Uncle or Cousin Jones). No contradiction. It is a matter of distinction between Persons, as "man" from "man", even though they both have the same nature. The first "man" is not the second "man". The "Word was God" (Son) is not the "God" (Father; context of John 1) whom He was "with".
It's like saying:
In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with the Father, and the Son was of the same nature as His Father - Deity.
Abram was Abraham? Sarai was Sarah? Jethro was Reuel/Hobab? Jacob was Israel? Gideon was Jerubbaal? Simon was Peter? James and John were Boanerges? Solomon was Jedidiah? Matthew was Levi? Thaddaeus was Lebbaeus? Esau was Edom? You act as if God does not have multiple names/titles/etc in scripture.
One of us does sound 'ridiculously absurd' (sic), but it is not I, nor the evidence I presented which you seem less than desirous to actually address.
Actually there are two major David's, one the human king, son of Jesse, and the other the Son of God:
Eze_34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
Eze_34:24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.
Eze_37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze_37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
You see, the Son of God is the real Moses, the real Israel, the real Solomon, the real Joshua, the real Adam, etc, etc:Eze_34:24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.
Eze_37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze_37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
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You misrepresented (strawmanned) my position (which is the scriptural position). There is no nature of Deity except JEHOVAH's Deity. JEHOVAH Elohiym is a family (three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost), not a 'singularity' (not arianism, nor unitarianism, nor modalism, nor 'trinitarianism' all which share the same erroneous root).
"Arm" is a reference to the Son, as the Son is the Person which works out the Will of the Father, see Genesis 1; Proverbs 8, &c. It does not mean that the Son is 'part' of the Father's Person. It is spiritual
1Sa_2:31 Behold, the days come, that I will cut off thine arm, and the arm of thy father's house, that there shall not be an old man in thine house.
2Ch_32:8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah.
Jer_17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
2Ch_32:8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah.
Jer_17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
, even as God is my "Strength" and my "Shield". God is not literally a round object made of deer hide to stand behind.
Psa_98:1 A Psalm. O sing unto the LORD a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory.
Psalms 98:1-3 is directly connected to Colossians 2:15.
Why is Jesus called the Father's right hand and "arm"? It is because the Son literally sits on the "right hand" of the Father. Jesus is even called the "power" of God (the Father) and the "wisdom" of God (the Father) (see Proverbs 8):
1Co_1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
The Holy Ghost is called (spiritually) the "finger" of God.
The Son belongs to the Father, hence, "mine (the Father's) arm (the Son)".
Again, another misrepresentation of my actual position (again you strawmanned). Deity did not and cannot die. Humanity died. Additionally, Jesus said:
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
A sacrifice by God.
101G
Well-Known Member
so we can take this as you cannot answer nor explain how our Lord Jesus is the ARM of God as a separate person or if he's the Same one Person....
thought so, just talk and no substance.
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
101G
Well-Known Member
first ERROR, God is not a family. God is ONE, so you ERROR there.
you said, "It is a matter of distinction between Persons, as "man" from "man" lets see if that is true.
#1. Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"
(so there is no other God, elimination #1.).
#2. Isaiah 45:6 "That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else." (well that just killed any family theory of any Godhead.... me let us know that there is no "person" beside him). BINGO
#3. and THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "CO-EQUAL" either. Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One."
Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?"
and as for the First and the Last, JESUS is the First and "with" the Last... so you're reproved.
and as in the First and the Last, yes, the First is With the Last but not at the beginning of Creation....
YIKES. but the First is with the Last in the End. ....... (smile)...
I love this.
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
101G
Well-Known Member
STOP RIGHT THERE, he's not a separate person, listen, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."
ok ReChoired, please explain to us how is your, "OWN ARM", is a separate person from YOU? please explain
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Simple, in the places I cited, the 'arm' is symbolic (spiritual), even as people who obey my commands, are the extension of my will to carry it out:
1Sa_2:31 Behold, the days come, that I will cut off thine arm, and the arm of thy father's house, that there shall not be an old man in thine house.
2Ch_32:8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah.
Jer_17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
2Ch_32:8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah.
Jer_17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
As an Army of the United States is the "arm" of the President, the acting 'head' of the country. A King, whose soldiers act on the orders of that King, act as the arm of the king, and extend wherever the king commands, but are not part of his physical body (at all). A Father, who issues a command to a son, acts as the head (will) to the son, who carries out that will on behalf of the father. The son becomes the 'arm' of the father's will (just as my physical arm acts in concert with my physical head/mind). You have a confusion of physical and spiritual.
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