Is Jesus the WORD?

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ReChoired

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#1. Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"
(so there is no other God, elimination #1.).
Read the context.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isa 44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
The Folly of Idolatry
Isa 44:9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
Isa 44:10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?​

God is contrasting, the true God to the false gods (Idols,devils, etc). As I said, there is only the true Deity, JEHOVAH Elohiym. There is no other Deity than the family JEHOVAH.
 

101G

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Simple, in the places I cited, the 'arm' is symbolic (spiritual), even as people who obey my commands, are the extension of my will to carry it out:
you own arm IS NOT OTHER PEOPLE... lol,

TRY AGAIN.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

ReChoired

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#3. and THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "CO-EQUAL" either. Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One."
Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?"
Again, read the context:

Isa 46:1 Bel boweth down, Nebo stoopeth, their idols were upon the beasts, and upon the cattle: your carriages were heavy loaden; they are a burden to the weary beast.
Isa 46:2 They stoop, they bow down together; they could not deliver the burden, but themselves are gone into captivity.
Isa 46:3 Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:
Isa 46:4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.
Isa 46:5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?​

God is again contrasting the true God, JEHOVAH Elohiym to the false gods (Idols, devils, etc). As I said, there is only the true Deity, JEHOVAH Elohiym. There is no other Deity than the family JEHOVAH.
 

ReChoired

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you own arm IS NOT OTHER PEOPLE... lol,
The King's Army is his. It is his "arm". The son of the father is also the father's. When the son carries out the will of the father (by command), the son is the "arm" of the father. For instance, when the father issues a command, "Pick up that block of wood.", to the son, and the son obeys, the son became the "arm" for the father, and the son belongs to the father, and both share the same nature.
 

101G

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Read the context.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isa 44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
The Folly of Idolatry
Isa 44:9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
Isa 44:10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?​

God is contrasting, the true God to the false gods (Idols,devils, etc). As I said, there is only the true Deity, JEHOVAH Elohiym. There is no other Deity than the family JEHOVAH.


OK LETS SEE, Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. do you not say "God" the Father? and not "god" the Father. so there is no such thing as CO-EQUAL.

and on that point using the same verse, is the "First" and the "Last" one person or Two persons?

because, Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"
is this two separate persons, or the same ONE person?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

101G

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The King's Army is his. It is his "arm". The son of the father is also the father's. When the son carries out the will of the father (by command), the son is the "arm" of the father. For instance, when the father issues a command, "Pick up that block of wood.", to the son, and the son obeys, the son became the "arm" for the father, and the son belongs to the father, and both share the same nature.
his but is his army his's own ARM individual arm?... :eek: YIKES!

your answer please
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

DNB

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Abram was Abraham? Sarai was Sarah? Jethro was Reuel/Hobab? Jacob was Israel? Gideon was Jerubbaal? Simon was Peter? James and John were Boanerges? Solomon was Jedidiah? Matthew was Levi? Thaddaeus was Lebbaeus? Esau was Edom? You act as if God does not have multiple names/titles/etc in scripture.

One of us does sound 'ridiculously absurd' (sic), but it is not I, nor the evidence I presented which you seem less than desirous to actually address.

Actually there are two major David's, one the human king, son of Jesse, and the other the Son of God:

Eze_34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

Eze_34:24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.

Eze_37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Eze_37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
You see, the Son of God is the real Moses, the real Israel, the real Solomon, the real Joshua, the real Adam, etc, etc:

Sorry, you're way too out-there, rechoired, way too out-there in left-field.
I can't even entertain where you are going with this, or how you derived it, for your conclusion precludes the necessity of that.
 
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DNB

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You misrepresented (strawmanned) my position (which is the scriptural position). There is no nature of Deity except JEHOVAH's Deity. JEHOVAH Elohiym is a family (three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost), not a 'singularity' (not arianism, nor unitarianism, nor modalism, nor 'trinitarianism' all which share the same erroneous root).
Sorry, you need a dictionary. Three all powerful and autonomous beings, or persons or entities or whatever, are three gods, which is polytheism.
Don't think that you can pull the wool over anyone's eyes with your oxymoron, and bastardization of the meaning of Scripture.
 

DNB

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Again, another misrepresentation of my actual position (again you strawmanned). Deity did not and cannot die. Humanity died. Additionally, Jesus said:

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.​

A sacrifice by God.
So was Jesus God, or not? ...here we go in endless circles....
 

DNB

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so we can take this as you cannot answer nor explain how our Lord Jesus is the ARM of God as a separate person or if he's the Same one Person....
thought so, just talk and no substance.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Then, who was the leg of God?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Oh, yeah, -- that thing that John wrote:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

Also that thing that John wrote at John 1:1 the first half of that 1st scripture says that, "in the beginning the word was with The God" the first half of the 1st verse doesn't say that, "the word was the God." the context lays the groundwork for accurate understanding. Even the KJV says, “The Word was with God.” Someone who is “with” another person cannot be the same as that other person. In agreement with this, the Journal of Biblical Literature, edited by Jesuit Joseph A. Fitzmyer, notes that if the latter part of John 1:1 were interpreted to mean “the” God, this “would then contradict the preceding clause,” which says that the Word was with God.
At John 1:1 there are two occurrences of the Greek noun the·osʹ (god). The first occurrence refers to Almighty God, with whom the Word was (“and the Word [loʹgos] was with God [a form of the·osʹ]”). This first the·osʹ is preceded by the word ton (the), a form of the Greek definite article that points to a distinct identity, in this case Almighty God (“and the Word was with [the] God”).

On the other hand, there is no article before the second the·osʹ at John 1:1. So a literal translation would read, “and god was the Word.” Yet we have seen that many translations render this second the·osʹ (a predicate noun) as “divine,” “godlike,” or “a god.” On what authority do they do this?

The Koine Greek language had a definite article “the," but it did not have an indefinite article “a” or “an." So when a predicate noun is not preceded by the definite article, it may be indefinite, depending on the context.

The Journal of Biblical Literature says that expressions “with an anarthrous," which means, "no article predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning.” As the Journal notes, this indicates that the loʹgos can be likened to a god. It also says of John 1:1: “The qualitative force of the predicate is so prominent that the noun "the·os" cannot be regarded as definite.”

So John 1:1 highlights the quality of the Word, that he was “divine,” “godlike,” “a god,” but not Almighty God. This harmonizes with the rest of the Bible, which shows that Jesus, here called “the Word” in his role as God’s Spokesman, was an obedient subordinate sent to earth by his Superior, Almighty God.

There are many other Bible verses in which almost all translators in other languages consistently insert the article “a” when translating Greek sentences with the same structure. For example, at Mark 6:49, when the disciples saw Jesus walking on water, the KJV says: “They supposed it had been a spirit.” In the Koine Greek, there is no “a” before “spirit.” But almost all translations in other languages add an “a” in order to make the rendering fit the context. In the same way, since John 1:1 shows that the Word was with God, he could not be God but was “a god,” or “divine.”

Joseph Henry Thayer, a theologian and scholar who worked on the American Standard Version, stated simply: “The Logos was divine, not the divine Being himself.” And Jesuit John L. McKenzie wrote in his Dictionary of the Bible: “John 1:1 should rigorously be translated . . . ‘the word was a divine being.’”

Added to this we have what The Apostle John wrote in his gospel at John 20:31 that everything that John wrote in the gospel of John he wrote so that people would put faith in the fact that Jesus is the Son of God. That means everything in the book of John including John 1:1; John 1:14 was all written so that we could put faith in the fact that God sent his Only Begotten Son to The World of Mankind as a human to save The World of Mankind
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Christophany quoted Luke 24:52 to try and prove the the Apostles believe and said Jesus was God:

Luke 24:52
And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy[/Quote\]


The act of bowing down to him; prostrated themselves to him; paid him homage.” The Greek verb pro·sky·neʹo is used to refer to the worship of a god or a deity, it is rendered “to worship.” (Mt 4:10; Lu 4:8) In this context, I believe the disciples recognized the resurrected Jesus as God’s representative. They rendered obeisance to him, not as to God or a deity, but as to “God’s Son,” the foretold “Son of man,” the Messiah with divine authority. (Lu 1:35; Mt 16:13-16; Joh 9:35-38) This was similar to the way that people mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures bowed down when meeting prophets, kings, or other representatives of God. (1Sa 25:23, 24; 2Sa 14:4; 1Ki 1:16; 2Ki 4:36, 37) On many occasions, in the scriptures I believe the obeisance done to Jesus expressed gratitude for divine revelation or recognition of divine favor like that expressed in earlier times.—Mt 14:32, 33; 28:5-10, 16-18; Joh 9:35, 38[/Qoute\]


Christophany quoted John 20:28:
John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" [/Quote\]

The thing I find interesting when someone quotes this scripture to try and prove the Apostles believed and said Jesus was God is that people such as christophany believe that what Jesus said about who he was the Apostles ignored or maybe people like Christophany think that what Jesus said about who he was, wasn't significant.
Myself I believe what Jesus said about himself to be more important that what anyone else including Thomas said or believed about Jesus. I however think that Thomas remembered what Jesus said about himself when he said what he said in John 20:28. What did Jesus say about himself, about who he was?
At John 6:38 Jesus said he came down from heaven to do, not my will, but the one who sent him. Strange, I thought God sent Jesus so since Jesus said he came from heaven to not do his will, but the will of the one who sent him and if God is the one who sent Jesus, how can people such as Christophany say that Thomas believed Jesus to be God? Thomas remembered what Jesus said here at John 6:38.
Also another thing that Thomas remembered about what Jesus said about himself and the one who sent Jesus is at John 7:16 in which Jesus says, "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to the one who sent me." So Jesus is saying that what he is teaching isn't his ideas or doctrine but the things he's teaching came from the person who sent him, again I ask, wasn't God the person who sent Jesus?

At another scripture that Thomas remembered Jesus saying is at John 14:28 where Jesus shows that Jesus believed his Father to be superior to him, but isn't Jesus Father God? How could Jesus be God if even Jesus believed there was someone superior to him? No one is superior to God.
Another thing that Thomas remembered is at Matthew 28:18 Jesus said, "all authority has been given me in heaven and on Earth." So isn't Jesus admitting here that he didn't always have all authority? One thing I know and Thomas knew is that God has always had all authority in heaven and on Earth. No one gave him that authority.
Another thing that Thomas heard concerning Jesus after he meaning Jesus had been resurrected is at John 20:17 where Jesus says he has a Father and God. This Father that is Jesus Father is also the Apostles Father which includes Thomas this person that is Jesus God is the Apostles God this includes Thomas. What Thomas said at John 20:28 doesn't make what these scriptures say that I have brought to attention a lie or insignificant but instead are the truth. Jesus has a Father and a God who is also the Apostles Father and God.
 

101G

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Then, who was the leg of God?
GINOLJC, to all.
so no scripture at all again?... only fleshly talk... lol. still in the flesh we see?.
since you went with the Leg of God, (and we'll get to that later), lets get his FACE first while we are at it... Revelation 22:4 "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads."

not their FACES... lol. just ONE FACE....... (smile).

now what about his back? Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen."

you see DNB, you have no clue of God's anthropomorphism in symbolism and his similitudes in "apperance" BINGO, and another BINGO. listen up and LEARN, school is in session. Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets."

(smile), God's anthropomorphism, and God's similitudes, .... :eek: YIKES!. .... LOL, LOL, LOL. the scripture is correct, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

do you kinow what "lack of knowledge means?" ....... Ingorant, (smile).

now that you have declared your IGNORANCE as to you have no clue as to what a similitude is?... lol, let get educated. yes, God has Legs.... LOL, man oh man I just can't stop laughing. DNB, how do you think God dwelt amoung us? ....:p understand something, in the OT he as Hosea said he used many similitudes .... in APPERANCE. let us show you just one famouse one.
Genesis 18:1 "And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;"Genesis 18:2 "And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,"

three men?, there men? lol, lol, lol, I wonder if they had any "LEGS" since they was standing....... ;) ... (LOL). my oh my, when will they ever learn.... well what about their feet? have any, or toes too... LOL. oh how slow of heart some are.,...... Lord help thm.

so you have been reprove again. a little advice... "start reading your bible more"... ok.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

DNB

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The King's Army is his. It is his "arm". The son of the father is also the father's. When the son carries out the will of the father (by command), the son is the "arm" of the father. For instance, when the father issues a command, "Pick up that block of wood.", to the son, and the son obeys, the son became the "arm" for the father, and the son belongs to the father, and both share the same nature.
How is it that you can be so rational and practical here, but everywhere else you just jump to absurd and implausible conclusions about one's ontology?
You are not applying the same hermeneutics here, which is correct, as you do in other areas, in which the latter approach always leaves you sounding as bizarre and incompetent, as 101G does here?
Why are you not consistent - it is because you have a bias.
 
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101G

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What is "GINOLJC"?
it's my greeting acronym when I come on the forum each day. it stand for,

Greeting
In
the
Name
Of
the
Lord
Jesus
the
Christ.
NO "T's" because no more cross


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101G

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How is it that you can be so rational and practical here, but everywhere else you just jump to absurd and implausible conclusions about one's ontology?
You are not applying the same hermeneutics here, which is correct, as you do in other areas, in which the latter approach always leaves you sounding as bizarre and incompetent, as 101G does here?
Why are you not consistent - it is because you have a bias.
legally, his assessment is correct, but not Godly Correct. for the king's army is not his personally. for the army is from the PEOPLE, and not from HIM personally. but under orders... legally correct.

now DNB, let 101G get you educate in what, ReChoired was talking about.

what's the difference in "spirit", small case “s” vs "Spirit", capital, "S" in Spirit. and what's the difference, in "Lord", and, "LORD". simple answer, POWER, (G1411, dunamis, and, G1849, exousia, authority). Lets look at these two sets of words. just like in math, fractions are reduce to its simplest form. so shall we do the same with these words. scriptures. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. Who, or what is the Arm of God?. the term right hand, or arm of God, is a anthropomorphism. meaning the attribution of human form or behavior given to a deity to understand its actions, here it means in Power, (the "authority” and the “ability”, or “might”, to do something).

The arm of flesh vs The Arm of the LORD, “authority”
when Sennacherib, king of Assyria, invaded Judah, the king of Judah, Hezekiah, encourages his people, listen to the record.

2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: 8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah". here, "arm of flesh", is Sennacherib, king of Assyria, ARMY, or fighting men or the king's power.

one of the failing prompts of the Unitarians, JW belief, and some others is this. they say, "Jesus is not God", and one of there excuses, "he could do nothing of himself", John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things”. as the "the ARM of God", he was not authorized to act alone on his own. this is clear as with the Assyrian army, and with our army today. no army act alone, or on their own power. our own American Army, just don't get up on it's own and go to war with another country without authorization from the commander in chief, or congress. just as my own arm don't wave unless I authorized it to wave. just as in the penny on the ground example. the head gives direction and authority to the body. this is explained in the understanding of the use of POWERS, the G1411 dunamis, and the G1849 exousia. just as the Army can do nothing of their own so do the Lord Jesus, he did not act on his own, (I DO NOTHING OF MYSELF). hence, one of the reason why he was in G2758 keno, (to abase, neutralize, or make of none effect). but at his baptism he was authorized with G1849 exousia to act in the NAME of God, (WHO AS SAID TAUGHT HIM). and it was he, who doth the work. as to forgive sin, heal the sick, raise the dead, and so on. he is our example of how the G1849 exousia works. and that's why we, as 1 John 3:2a states, "now we're the Sons of God".

as in the example of 2 Chronicles 32, an "ARM OF FLESH, (which our Lord Jesus, GOD IN FLESH), is his, God's, ARMY, to carry out his will. as the scriptures clearly state, "NOT MY WILL, BUT THE FATHER'S WILL".

so the owner is in what ReChoired w2as speaking of was in legal ownership of authority and POWER, for the Lord Jesus the Christ is the wisdom and POWER of God, see 1 Corinthians 1:24.

so DNB, you need to know the difference between "Legal ownership" and "Personal Ownership". big difference.

now if you have any questions.... just ask.... :D

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
now, read that againg above.... (smile).

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

101G

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that arm of God is made bare for all to see............. the ordinal Last, JESUS, the diversity, or the offspring of God.

an ARMY of one or the "Force of ONE". Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." oh how true this verse is.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"