Contradiction Or Paradox?
- Thread starter BarneyFife
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It speaks of resting in the Lord...Unfortunately, not a word about the Sabbath here.
Is that not what the sabbath is all about? Taking a day of rest in which you spend time meditating on and contemplating God's word so that you can apply it for the rest of the week...
I find that when I came into a relationship with Christ, it became my passion to spend as much time as possible in the presence of the Lord, contemplating His word. I do not do it only on Saturdays; but any chance that I get no matter what day of the week it may be.
Not a word of Scripture here , JBF.
The most earnest appeals to spiritualize the Sabbath come with no Scripture at all--only testimony of feeling. This is because there are no earnest appeals to do so in the Bible, so they must emanate from the heart. But the heart is wicked above all things. Rationalization is a terrible interpreter. The Sabbath cannot be kept every day of the week, no matter what one's passion becomes. And "taking a day" is simply not the same as taking the day that God has chosen and signified. And which is the safer alternative to the genuine-- a day or every day or both or neither? No consensus from objectors. Until God formally abrogates the 4th commandment, I'm erring on the side of caution. It is truly regrettable that that's so disagreeable to some.
“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail” (Luke 16:17).
Exodus 20
1And God spake all these words, saying...
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
1And God spake all these words, saying...
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
All His precepts [commandments] are sure. They stand fast forever and ever. (Psalms 111:7-8)
We ought to obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29)
We ought to obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29)
A little above my pay grade but I like the way you present it.
Jesus and Paul both quoted outside the 5 books, claiming them as "the Law".
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
If the last Adam had sinned once, then we would have no sinless Father(Jesus). We would have been stuck with 2 failed Adams'.
Paul said sin made him exceeding sinful. Jesus would have been the same if he would have sinned.
Rom 14:5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Col 2:16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Heb 4:4, For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6, Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7, Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8, For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9, There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10, For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11, Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12, For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The one who has entered into God's rest has ceased from his own works. This would indicate a permanent resting (not a resting that will end as soon as the seventh day is finished); as what someone previously spoke about on this subject, that in heaven all our work will be done in leisure time: that none of it will be as hard labour; though it may indeed be a labour of love: yet it will all be done with joy and in perfect peace so that none of it will be as hard labour.
Very hefty, indeed.
Christ and the Gospel writers seemed to have the impression that the law and/or the prophets were somehow distinct from one another. If you insist that the word "law" as used in the New Testament always means "the entire Old Testament," I'm not sure there's any basis for further discussion here.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Jesus quoted Psalm 82 as "it saith in your Law".
Paul says this...
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.(Joel 2).
Which means mankind divided the O.T. up into segments after the 1st century church.
It means no such thing.
Christ called the existing Scriptures in His time (before the 1st century church) "the law and the prophets."
Do you or do you not believe that the word "law" as used in the NT (every time) means the entire OT? Give it just a little thought. No hit-and-runs, please.
With as much honesty as I know how, I will tell you frankly, JBF, that I've heard these arguments (and many more) against the literal observance of the 4th commandment hundreds of times over the past several decades, and I sincerely do not believe for one minute that any nor all of them together constitute a rescinding or altering of the 4th commandment written on tablets of stone (most likely before there was any Scripture) along with the rest of the human moral code.
A careful reading of them reveals just that fact.
In the first two verses you provided, consider carefully the use of the word "man." It sounds to me like these are verses about improper judgment on the part of men, not matter-of-fact nulling and voiding of the 4th commandment. Further, in Colossians 2:16, of the 29 English translations listed on Biblehub.com, only three of them use language that even alludes specifically to the weekly Sabbath. The rest suggest ceremonial or Levitical feast days (plural).
As for Hebrews 4, what would you say "And in this place again" means? It seems to me that it delineates between an allegorical mention of the seventh-day Saabbath and what follows, which is an appeal to rest from the works of the law as a means to justification.
If you want to talk about the Sabbath in Heaven we can do that.
Let's start with a direct declaration such as:
Isaiah 66
22“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
22“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
Besides all of this, we still have not solved the problem of the lack of consensus. Among those who feel no obligation to observe the 4th commandment literally, there is no agreement upon how if at all it should be observed. The only thing that is agreed upon is that as long as we obey or do not obey it in some form or fashion other than literally, we will be all right and will be spared the awful scourge of being labeled as a legalist.
In my lifetime I have monitored the trend of the rejection of the Sabbath. First it was simply transference: a simple shift of solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. Texts were provided. This wasn't convincing enough to some folks so the Sabbath institution itself was denigrated--denounced as Judaizing. Texts were provided. Still, many were not satisfied so the moral law itself was done away with. Again, texts were presented, this time made to suggest that the ten commandments were too shallow to convey the depth of obedience God requires and that the "new humanism" movement (credited to John 13:34) is God's ideal for man.
We do not have to agree on this. It was extremely hard for me to turn my back on a lifetime of Southern Baptist Sunday-sacredness. But I am duty-bound to pass it on to all who will hear it, every bit as much as I would be compelled to warn someone against idolatry, adultery, or larceny. My job is not to convict, but to convey.
See 2 Corinthians 3:1-11 please.
That which was written on stone is the ministration of death.
I think that you may have anticipated this answer, so I am interested in your response.
It is usually not going to be the majority of texts that is going to bring you the truth of the matter (see Matthew 7:13-14).
I think that you may have also anticipated this answer so I am interested in your response.
There is a guy over at CF.com who just parks in threads about the Sabbath and the law (never posts anywhere else) and he views the entire Bible through the lens of 2 Corinthians 3. There's only so much that can be said in defense of something without the defender becoming or seeming defensive. We could go on forever about this, but I'll just say that, like Hebrews, the message in 2 Cor 3 is "good, better"--not "old-bad, new-good." The old covenant didn't fail--the people did. There are, in a sense, really no old and new covenants, just the everlasting one. Obey and live. Just like the Gospel. God never changes. But He works for change in people's hearts. I'm a big believer in progressive revelation. Especially over millennia.
What else does the common man (for whom the Bible is written) have to go on? I can honestly say I have never heard that interpretation of that passage, and I certainly don't hold it. I'm really not that clever. Sorry, I guess I kind of came off as a big dud this time around, eh?
Seriously, though, while I realize that different methods of study must be used to arrive at a truly systematic Theology, proof-texting gets me further than any other.
The fact that the way to life is narrow might indicate that it is the fewer of the texts that will contain the truth that leads to life, rather than the majority of them?
We can simply look to Jesus' own words about it:
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:37-40
On those two commandments! They were in Jesus all of the time. They were a part of Him all of the time! And us? We see on here [this forum] arguments/discussions about who the 'Lord thy God' is, as well as on who our neighbour is, but Jesus did not seem to have difficulties in understanding so that there was a need to argue. How much like Jesus are we now? Where is our love now?
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If we are born again of the Holy Spirit, then the Spirit dwells within us by faith (Galatians 3:14).
And the love of the Lord is therefore shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Ghost who is given to us (Romans 5:5).
When people do not have an accurate knowledge of who God is, it is expedient to show them the truth. Jesus even did contend with the Pharisees in John chapter 8 as concerning their rejection of His Deity.
1Th 2:2, But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
And the love of the Lord is therefore shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Ghost who is given to us (Romans 5:5).
When people do not have an accurate knowledge of who God is, it is expedient to show them the truth. Jesus even did contend with the Pharisees in John chapter 8 as concerning their rejection of His Deity.
1Th 2:2, But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
Jesus was the Word of God and saw it all clearly. His vision was a perfect vision... but consider:
"Where there is no vision, the people perish:.." Prov 29:18
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12
Jesus, the Word of God was effectively/actually at the "face to face", but where are we? Who presumes to already see it all so clearly as did Jesus the man walking among us?
Yes.
Case in point, the very first command to Adam was a Law.
The very last book of the O.T. was Laws to Israel.(God was making Laws all through the Prophets).
Ignoring all these Laws and only focusing on Mosaic Law would be unwise if you lived in Israel in the O.T. days.
Jesus considered all of God's laws, Law.
It is human Monday morning quarterbacks that are rethinking all of this.
I would only say that if we have an unction from the holy one, we know all things and do not need any man to teach us (1 John 2:20, 1 John 2:27).
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