you may have to chew it for a long time....If you don't understand... you will not do it by words from me or Swampfox...I will try one more time... It was discussed on the q and a of SCN this am...I will use the answer PM gave... you all will not understand that either but one will..When we look to the verse John 3:16 the word everlasting in the Greek means from the beginning of time to the end... If you believe in the first earth age, then you will see this, we were there...How many angels do you think there are....Look to the sky how many stars do you see..Kriss not all the rebellious angels were fallen angels, this sounds like symantics, but I am using the terms you did so we can classify them.Some did agree to be born of woman...I believe that is why the earth is so full of evil at this time...They are here now. God wiped out our memory of the first earth age, you do not remember it, but you have a greater amount of brain that you use, right?I have been praying specifically for John to understand this... I am going to include all who read now....I may have been wrong in bringing out this subject, for it took me many years to percieve this and I am asking you to swallow a camel...As I said only God really can help you understand this...John I will try to answer your questions of the quotesmaybe we didnt see the Father in the first earth age? He walked with Adam and Eve in the garden....Perhaps we cannot really look on the true entity that God is.. look a the mountain and Moshe at what happened the mountain was burnished and melted into Lapiz Azure a complete floor of it and Moshe glowed for a long time... a long time.. his face was changed from being in the presence, and he never got to look at God....so perhaps Christ meant flesh men, or perhaps he meant we really cound not see with our eyes even in the spiritual realm....I am not sure, if it tells us in the Word, I have not see it this past years of study...Again I will be praying.... you will have to pray for understanding also, but lets continue and talk about some other things about the 3 ages of of the Earth, put it on the shelf so to speak, of course I will answer any question anyone asks me, but I think for you, it will come from God , not me.