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the ages of the heaven and earth

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by betchevy, Apr 5, 2007.

  1. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    NO>> I MEAN IT!
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Really, the best way to know the truth is to read, and study the bible (KJB), not in intellectant manner, nor in acadamic manner, but literally by in a very humble manner to the LORD God. God knows all truth, He will give you truth by prayers. Betchevy knows I'm sober. Arguments will not help you nor others to know the truth.Well Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
     
  3. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    The sons of God are simply Adams offspring which stayed loyal to God.
    Sons of God is also repeatedly used to denote an angel. I have a feeling there's not much that I can say to change this, but this verse will put it into perspective for everyone involved: Job 1:6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Yep, you know who is even numbered among the sons of God because he was an angel. Just in case you're not yet satiated, later on in Job 38:7 we have: When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Take a look at Strong's. The Hebrew is 'adam(#H0120) which was rendered "Adam" on some occasions. If the case were, as you maintain, that Sons of God = Adam's line, then it would quickly become a phrase that's presence would make no logical sense whatsoever. Combine that with Genesis 6:4 and it really looks strange. The word here use for men means mankind, of which I think we'll all agree Adam is one.
    2 Peter obviously is talking about the flood of Noah, as he makes reference to it the chapter beforehand. v5
    That might work, but the Greek word is Kosmos here. Every other occurance that is rendered "Earth" is the Greek word Ge, which does mean the Earth as in the planet. Only the katabole at the end of the first earth age would account for this. Particularly if you study the Hebrew in the OT. Cain was banished from all the face of the earth yet he ended up right next door in Nod, for example.
    Now the last arguement, where does it say that we pre-existed (this is a mormon belief btw) And where does it say that the spirit that God breathed into Adams nostrils was Adams soul? When Genesis calls Adam a soul, not "has a soul" but is a soul.
    As I said, this is notable for the absense of creation of the soul. It merely says God breated the soul into the clay body he created. On it's own, I agree that it doesn't seem to mean much, but the ambiguity is there for a reason. The soul pre-existed the body. Whether or not the Mormons believe it doesn't matter to me. There are actually topics where you, I, and the Mormoms would probably agree, but that doesn't mean we are Mormon now does it? I'll agree with another demonination or person, but that doesn't mean I follow all of their beliefs. I think you'll find that the truth is indeed often surrounded in corruption. I'm out of time, but I will address the beasts of Revelation tonight hopefully.
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    KendallYou know you only know what your church has taught you, I'm not putting you down for that just saying that many churches don't care about the truth as much as they care about keeping you happy enough to keep filling the collection tray.To do this the truth is often filtered though the church leaders.They decide what is taught.So when you don't research his word on your own you are just taking mens word for what God says.Even if it comes through the church. Remember Jesus tipping over the money tables. A warning?
     
  5. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    For some time now every thing that I post Kendal comes against me... this is evident if you will look at posts ....even those which we agree on such as Passover, he and I have discussed this extensivly in private. to no avail... therefore in order to exclude kendal ,if any would like to discuss this topic with me , please do it in a pm, I will not argue with kendal especailly when he refuses to read the very study this topic is based on.....betchevy
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    JohnIf you still do not get this teaching I think you need to put it on the self for the time being.If God has not yet given you this understanding. You should not let us or any other man push it on you. I believe you are truly trying to understand it, but sometimes there is other bits of wisdom we need to learn before it all falls in place. It is a deep teaching and you just may not be ready. Its like reading the end of a book and then trying to figure out how it all happened. Just put it on the back burner till it fits.
     
  7. kendal

    kendal New Member

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    Maybe i need prayer, maybe i like to argue, i read the study, and i still don't see how we lived in another age.Because the Bible never says we had a pre-existing soul, or that we pre-existed, as for God breathing the breath of life into Adam, it never says that is was Adam's spirit, only "the breath of life", the very same verse says that Adam became a soul. Not entered a body. When Cain and Abel were born, it doesn't again say God breathed the souls into them, because they were created, and life passed from Adam to his offspring. The breath of life is just life. Life itself. This is just an idea, but think of it this way, you have a computer, but it can't work without electricity, but the electricity is not the soul, it is just power. I understand Job 1:6; but sons of God are beings which follow God. Nowhere in the Bible do you see Satan and his angels, or rebellious men called the sons of God. If these were the sons of God, they were men - angels don't marry, and God's angels would never have done this if the rebellion happened before the 7 day creation, because they would have ceased to be called "sons of God".Can someone link me to the full study please, thanks. I think some of these things are good reasonings, but are just really unorthadox.Also, could someone tell me what impact this has on my personal salvation. Thanks !
     
  8. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Did you ever hear of fallen angels? And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. (Genesis 6:1,2) Beings from the spirit world (Nephilim) the fallen angels, looked upon the beautiful woman and took any they desired to be their wives. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the fallen sons of God (Nephilim) came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men, which were of old, men of renown. (Genesis 6:4) In those days, when the fallen angels (Nephilim) were sexually involved with human women, their children became giants, (Gibbor in the Hebrew language) of whom so many legends are told. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (Genesis 6:5) When God seen the perversion among the nephilim and among men, he was sorry he had made them. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (Genesis 6:7) God would destroy man along with the gibbor, in order to preserve the human race that the fallen angels tried to pollute. Theres to many verses and proof to even mention that prove you wronghttp://www.christianityboard.com/sons-god-...p=8925#post8925 read the study
     
  9. kendal

    kendal New Member

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    I don't see where it says Nephillim,I think it's an interesting idea none-the less, i think i need to study it with someone. Yet at the same time, i don't see how we pre-existed.As for the sons of God, they are God's loyal sons, whether God's angels or God's people you can't tell, but it then goes on to say they took the daughters of men, or those who were not loyal to God, Angels wouldn't do that, only men claiming to be Christians. If you read Job 1:6 there are 2 types of angels, there are sons of God, and there is Satan. It doesn't say "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan was one of them." it says "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them." In this case, Satan is not refferred to as a son of God, because he was in rebellion.Either way, talk more about this earth age thing, make it more clear to me,thanks,
     
  10. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    "nephilim", an ancient race of giants as mentioned in the Pentateuch (e.g. Gn 6,4).They are translated "gigantes" in the SeptuagintaNephilim - (Gen. 6:4; Num. 13:33, R.V.), giants, the Hebrew word untranslated by the Revisers, the name of one of the Canaanitish tribes. The Revisers have, however, translated the Hebrew gibborim, in Gen. 6:4, "mighty men." i.e. giants...............................................................the following is taken from the Book of Enoch and contains fragments from Noah. We might only assume it was not included in the scripture because no complete copy exists.But there may have been other reasons we do not know for sure. This is not scripture and it not to be taken as scripture, but rather as a second source of information we can use to help fill in where scripture is telling us truth and we need a second witness to clarify the thought...............................................................................Enoch VI-XI. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralisation of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels: the Messianic Kingdom (a Noah fragment).CHAPTER VI.1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' 3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' 4. And they all answeredp. 35him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' 5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 7. And these are the names of their leaders: Sêmîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. 8. These are their chiefs of tens.CHAPTER VII.1. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. 2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: 3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. 5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.CHAPTER Vlll1. And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals 〈of the earth〉 and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. 2. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl,p. 36[paragraph continues] (taught) astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, 〈Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun〉, and Sariêl the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .CHAPTER lX1. And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth. 2. And they said one to another: 'The earth made †without inhabitant cries the voice of their crying† up to the gates of heaven. 3 ⌈⌈And now to you, the holy ones of heaven⌉⌉, the souls of men make their suit, saying, "Bring our cause before the Most High.".' 4. And they said to the Lord of the ages: 'Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings, 〈and God of the ages〉, the throne of Thy glory (standeth) unto all the generations of the ages, and Thy name holy and glorious and blessed unto all the ages! 5. Thou hast made all things, and power over all things hast Thou: and all things are naked and open in Thy sight, and Thou seest all things, and nothing can hide itself from Thee. 6. Thou seest what Azâzêl hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which men were striving to learn: 7. And Semjâzâ, to whom Thou hast given authority to bear rule over his associates. 8. And they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. 9. And the women have borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness. 10. And now, behold, the souls of those who have died are crying and making their suit to the gates of heaven, and their lamentations have ascended: and cannot cease because of the lawless deeds which are wrought on the earth. 11. And Thou knowest all things before they come to pass, andp. 37[paragraph continues] Thou seest these things and Thou dost suffer them, and Thou dost not say to us what we are to do to them in regard to these.'CHAPTER X.1. Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: 2. '〈Go to Noah〉 and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. 3. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' 4. And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein. 5. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. 6. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. 8. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin.' 9. And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. 10. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.' 11. And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjâzâ andp. 38his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. 13. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: 〈and〉 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. 15. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: ⌈and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth⌉ shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.17 And then shall all the righteous escape,And shall live till they beget thousands of children,And all the days of their youth and their old ageShall they complete in peace.18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and be full of blessing. 19. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield ten presses of oil. 20. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth destroy from off the earth. 21. ⌈And all the children of men shall become righteous⌉, and all nations shallp. 39offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.If you would like to read the entire bookhttp://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe004.htm--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  11. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Satan is a son of God, you cannot read that verse as mutually exclusive because there's no place to make that basis. Because you don't like the idea doesn't make it untrue. If anything, your statement is untrue because Ezekiel 28 documents Satan's role as a son of God. Ezekiel 28:12-14Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. "Thou art..." is used there, it's nothing strange for Satan to be among the sons of God because he was one. He was a cherub, the morning star. That's a moot point though and not the topic of what we're discussing. The overall point is that sons of God is a term used of angels. Sons of God and daughters of men are two very different things. The Cain and Abel situation really doesn't work either because that's a completely different scenario. They were born and not directly created by God as Adam was. As for the word nephilim, this is the Hebrew used here. Wikipedia can back me up on this, but nephilim literally translates to "those that cause others to fall." As for your documentation, it's found in Jude: Jude 1:6-7And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
     
  12. Tama

    Tama New Member

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    (kriss;8937)
    Did you ever hear of fallen angels?
    Kriss, fallen angels are the deamons who are spirits, who are doing their job daily by destroying this world. They are not in flesh. If you refering to 'pre-existed' population meaning fallen angels, then yes, you are right. Angels exsisted before us, and before Adam and Eve - fallen angels (1/3 of all angels) had been casted out of the Heaven. But they are not people!!! We, people, did not pre-exist. We were created on the 6th day of the creation process. Bible clearly states that. And if you are planning to bring up the 2 scriptures (chapter 1 & 2) on creation of the 'people' I will tell you again - chapter 2 is the summary of the chapter 1 6-day creation process. It doesn't show God repeating the creation act, it describes the act already taken in 1st chapter.
     
  13. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Tama)
    And if you are planning to bring up the 2 scriptures (chapter 1 & 2) on creation of the 'people' I will tell you again - chapter 2 is the summary of the chapter 1 6-day creation process. It doesn't show God repeating the creation act, it describes the act already taken in 1st chapter.
    And let me remind you Tama, that there were people all over the world...and yes there were people there in the Garden of Eden.Genesis 1:26-27 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.And Adam is not exactly the first man existed in the Earth as a man in a flesh body. Adam was somewhat formed later than the earlier 6th day (6,000 years) creation.(Tama)
    Kriss, fallen angels are the deamons who are spirits, who are doing their job daily by destroying this world. They are not in flesh.
    Actually fallen angels did came into the flesh. (Some if not all) How else can we see false doctrines today...if the spirit of a devil are not in the flesh. The bible says that there are many antiChrists...(spirit)And I again say this unto thee, Angels in the bible are refered as men.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
     
  14. Tama

    Tama New Member

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    (thesuperjag;12453)
    And Adam is not exactly the first man existed in the Earth as a man in a flesh body. Adam was somewhat formed later than the earlier 6th day (6,000 years) creation.
    Um, Bible explains it well. That Adam and Eve were the first 2 people created. First 2 people to occupy the earth. Fallen Angels are deamons who are called 'fallen' due to disobedience and decision to follow Satan in his pride and disobedience to God. The 6000 years - I don't what 6 day creation has to do with 6000 years.Creation took 6 DAYS. I believe the earth is 6000 years as of now. Bible timeline calculates 4000 years between Adam and Eve and Jesus Christ. And 2000+ from Jesus Christ to Now days.
     
  15. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Tama)
    Um, Bible explains it well. That Adam and Eve were the first 2 people created. First 2 people to occupy the earth. Fallen Angels are deamons who are called 'fallen' due to disobedience and decision to follow Satan in his pride and disobedience to God. The 6000 years - I don't what 6 day creation has to do with 6000 years.Creation took 6 DAYS. I believe the earth is 6000 years as of now. Bible timeline calculates 4000 years between Adam and Eve and Jesus Christ. And 2000+ from Jesus Christ to Now days.
    Actually the bible knows that the Earth is not 6,000 years old....It is clearly, just plain clearly that the Earth is over 6,000 years old. Also the bible knows that Adam and Eve are different people to the earlier (6th day creation)(6,000 years) And we did exist before in our flesh age.P.S. Did you know there was another flood before Noah's flood?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour. 2nd P.S. Cain did not marry his sister...And Adam and Eve aren't the first 2 people.Genesis 1:26-27 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
     
  16. RND

    RND New Member

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    As for the word nephilim, this is the Hebrew used here. Wikipedia can back me up on this, but nephilim literally translates to "those that cause others to fall."
    The word "nephilim" cannot be found anywhere in the Hebrew.Result of search for "nephilim":No matching entries found.The word "giants" in Genesis 6:4 is Strong's number 5303 - nephiyl, which is not translated any other way than the word is intended:"Properly, a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant:-giant"The idea that angels, that are created beings and "neither marry or are given in marriage" have and use sexual organs that they do not need, nor were created with, is purely a man made doctrine and inconsistent with scripture.
     
  17. Tama

    Tama New Member

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    (thesuperjag;12458)
    Actually the bible knows that the Earth is not 6,000 years old....It is clearly, just plain clearly that the Earth is over 6,000 years old. Also the bible knows that Adam and Eve are different people to the earlier (6th day creation)(6,000 years) And we did exist before in our flesh age.P.S. Did you know there was another flood before Noah's flood?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour. 2nd P.S. Cain did not marry his sister...And Adam and Eve aren't the first 2 people.Genesis 1:26-27 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    Both of us are are strong in what we believe about creation process, 'pre-existed' populationa nd other stuff. So, I won't argue, because you won't change what I think and will NOT prove your point without scriptures to back that up... I can. Bible - Genesis says. Creation of Adam and Eve (first 2 people) was to reproduce and fill the earth.
     
  18. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Tama)
    Both of us are are strong in what we believe about creation process, 'pre-existed' populationa nd other stuff. So, I won't argue, because you won't change what I think and will NOT prove your point without scriptures to back that up... I can. Bible - Genesis says. Creation of Adam and Eve (first 2 people) was to reproduce and fill the earth.
    Anyway Tama, Let me clear on this, this will never be about me. Never ever will be about me in my life. It's all about the Truth of God. I rather prove a doctrine of God with scriptures over trying to prove a point without scriptures...Without scriptures is more like guesswork. Genesis tells me that God created the races (6th day) (not literal days) and Adam and Eve aren't exactly the first people. Also the Earth is not 6,000 years old. Do you want me to document that the both of these things. (1. The races/Adam and Eve and 2. Earth's age)Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  19. Tama

    Tama New Member

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    (thesuperjag;12490)
    Anyway Tama, Let me clear on this, this will never be about me. Never ever will be about me in my life. It's all about the Truth of God. I rather prove a doctrine of God with scriptures over trying to prove a point without scriptures...Without scriptures is more like guesswork. Genesis tells me that God created the races (6th day) (not literal days) and Adam and Eve aren't exactly the first people. Also the Earth is not 6,000 years old. Do you want me to document that the both of these things. (1. The races/Adam and Eve and 2. Earth's age)Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
    [​IMG] You are telling the truth and I am not!!! LOL okay!!! As I said - we both believe what we believe. I can back up EVERY THING I said on here with a scripture, and so can you. So, please don't make it sound like you're the only one who knows Bible and who can say something that makes sense. In fact most of your comment are just guesses not a Bible-Quoted fact....
     
  20. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    If you say so Tama, and nay, I don't claim that I'm the only one that knows the bible...Actually, my friend, Thine's is guesswork...and there are somethings that you stated are rather guesswork, rather than truth. I know this, because I heard from quite a few people... (OSAS, 6,000 year Earth etc) I leave that to my Heavenly Father. Don't underestimate Lucifer as He is the master deceiver.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.Galatians 1:10 - For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
     
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