Who founded your church?

theefaith · Feb 10, 2021

Behold said:
Everyone who is born again by the Spirit of God., sure.

born again that’s baptism

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

Truther · Feb 10, 2021

Marymog said:
Which truth? Protestantism teaches that Baptism saves and is necessary....baptism doesn’t save and is not necessary. Real Presence...no real presence. Mary perpetual virgin...not perpetual virgin. Anyone can read scripture and be guided to the truth.....onlyTHEIR denomination has the truth Etc etc etc

Protestantism teaches MANY truths....all of which YOU individually get to decide what is truth.

See the conundrum you are in Truther?

We are clawing our way back to obeying Acts 2:38.

The RCC has hold of our feet and is trying with all of it's might to pull us back into her prison.

The fighters are holding of by their fingernails.

Truther · Feb 10, 2021

Behold said:
Go here... and notice = "MY Gospel"

Romans 2:16

Romans 16:25

1 Corinthians 3:10

2 Timothy 2:8

You skipped Acts 2:38.

If you were Peter and they asked you "what must we do", then what would you have told them?

The above verses?

If so, why would you have disagreed with Peter?

BreadOfLife · Feb 10, 2021

DNB said:
I agree with you, and highly recommend such a disposition of self-discipline and allowing the Spirit to take precedence over the flesh. But, not to the point of isolation, or where the focus becomes solely on debasing the flesh. That is, the oxymoron of denying the flesh, while spending your entire life and dedication in monitoring its deprivation. You see the irony?

The point is that we need not hide from society to express our devotion to Christ and our transcendence of the flesh. For, the true strength comes in living amongst the desires and not succumbing to them. In one small sense, this is exactly what Christ did, he consorted with the depraved of society, in order to reveal his ability to overcome temptation.

This is the sign of victory, in that it is not impressive or efficacious to protect oneself from the world in order to overcome it. Face it, and rebuke it.

Actually - the focus is NOT sole'y "debasing" the flesh. It is a committment to prayer and sacrifice for the edification of the Body of Christ.
And let's NOT forget that we are all called to DIFFERENT paths within the Body that are NO less important and useful:
1 Cor. 12:29-31
Are ALL apostles? Are ALL prophets? Are ALL teachers? Do ALL work miracles? Do ALL possess gifts of healing? Do ALL speak with tongues? Do ALL interpret? But zearnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

Paul stated that he offered up his sufferings - and joined those sufferings with those of Christ for the sake of the Body (Col. 1:24). How can you see this as a noble endeavor yet condemn those who imitate this behavior is beyond me . . .

BreadOfLife · Feb 10, 2021

Behold said:
Paul did recommend celibacy, but that recommendation is based on God equipping you to exist in this lifestyle.
Where the CC makes a mess of this is by forcing their Priest's to exist as celibate, which is not scriptural.
The end result?
= Pedophilia.

A truly moronic and typically dishonest observation.

first of al - NO priest if "forced" to be celibate. They know this before entering the seminary and make this choiuce VOLUNTARILY.
As to to your asinine charge that celibacy leads to pedophilia - statistics show that not only is pedophilia more common among MARRIED men - but there is FAR more of it going on in Protestant circles than in the Catholic Church.

Read Protestant author, Philip Jenkins' book, Pedophiles and Priests, wherein he shows the national and worldwide averages that PROVE this is more widespread in your OWN back yard. there is simply no money in it for the lawyers, so they almost exclusively went after the Catholic Church instead . . .

Behold · Feb 10, 2021

Illuminator said:
We are BORN AGAIN by water and the spirit in baptism.

Paul said..."Christ sent me not to Baptize".
The dying thief on the Cross was not water Baptized.

the "baptism" that puts a believer "in Christ" is not the city water system.

Listen, the water cults twisted a verse and created a lie.

Let me show you how the verse reads........""""For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"""

Now, see that verse? Look carefully...>"by ONE SPIRIT, we are BAPTIZED INTO = ONE BODY"..

See the process? That is the Holy Spirit, causing the NEW BIRTH, that is to be BORN AGAIN, into ONE BODY.
The ONE BODY, is the Body Of Christ.
The "ONE".... Is ...this.....>"ONE with God and Christ".
Now do you see how it works?
God Spirit BIRTHS, a dead spirit that is in a person, and that is to be BORN AGAIN.

What is missing?

WATER.

BreadOfLife · Feb 10, 2021

Behold said:
Educate yourself, fallen one.

Listen carefully...
All water cults replace the Gospel of the Grace of God with "water baptism".
That includes yours.
Bottom line.

And all those who deny the Baptism of Christ ignorantly refer to it as a "Water Cult".

You've become puffed up with yourself and have rejected God's teaching . . .
Prov. 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.

Behold · Feb 10, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
A truly moronic and typically dishonest observation.

first of al - NO priest if "forced" to be celibate. .

Be careful there, as it almost sounds like you are trying to be personally insulting.

Now here is the reality check for you.
The Catholic Church demands that you abide by its RULE.. that if you want to be a Priest in its religion, you agree to the Catholic Church's rule that a man may not marry.

So, that is forced upon a man, ...which is not only unnatural, but its a doctrine of Devils, as Paul Explains...."forbidding to marry"...

Let me show you..

1 Timothy 4:1.... """ Now the Hoy Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of DEVILS... vs.. 3. "forbidding to Marry".;

So, there is the Catholic CELIBACY RULE for PRIEST as explained in the NT, by Paul, as a "doctrine of Devils".

And the end result of such a demonic rule, is that you put a man in a untenable situation where He is not allowed by his Religion to behave naturally as God created men and women to exist.
So, he does what comes naturally, and that unfortunately is a pedophile crisis within the Catholic Church, that is CREATED by this demonic rule.

BreadOfLife · Feb 10, 2021

Truther said:
No silly.
Baptism is the new covenant sign.
Circumcision is the old covenant sign.
You think one covenant fulfills another.

Your idea excludes the ladies by your reasoning, inadvertently saying that only the males are "circumcised spiritually" for the females, which were not required circumcision.

Perhaps the most idiotic thing you've said so far - based on a complete lack of knowledge of the Law and the OT.

Try to post only intelligent replies and leave this noonsense at the door . . .

Marymog · Feb 10, 2021

Truther said:
We are clawing our way back to obeying Acts 2:38.

The RCC has hold of our feet and is trying with all of it's might to pull us back into her prison.

The fighters are holding of by their fingernails.

That makes ZERO sense....and here is why!

The Church has taught for 2,000 years that one must repent, be baptized and they will receive the Holy Spirit soooo your "clawing our way back" statement is bankrupt.

Your theory is that since The Church (RCC) has a teaching different than what you believe she is "trying with all of it's might to pull us back into her prison". That makes ZERO sense....You have a choice to deny Church teaching or accept it....how silly!

WHICH FIGHTERS are holding on by their fingernails??????

All you Protestants disagree with each other on salvation and doctrine and interpretations of Scripture etc etc Sooooooooooooooo who is holding on by their fingernails?? You and the 25-50 people that agree with you.....ONCE AGAIN, how silly!!!

BACK TO THE OP........Who founded your Church??? TRANSLATION: What man taught you that The Church is wrong and you are right?

I know I won't get a serious answer but I thought I would try!!

BreadOfLife · Feb 10, 2021

Behold said:
Be careful there, as it almost sounds like you are trying to be personally insulting.

Now here is the reality check for you.
The Catholic Church demands that you abide by its RULE.. that if you want to be a Priest in its religion, you agree to the Catholic Church's rule that a man may not marry.

So, that is forced upon a man, ...which is not only unnatural, but its a doctrine of Devils, as Paul Explains...."forbidding to marry"...

Let me show you..

1 Timothy 4:1.... """ Now the Hoy Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of DEVILS... vs.. 3. "forbidding to Marry".;

So, there is the Catholic CELIBACY RULE for PRIEST as explained in the NT, by Paul, as a "doctrine of Devils".

And the end result of such a demonic rule, is that you put a man in a untenable situation where He is not allowed by his Religion to behave naturally as God created men and women to exist.
So, he does what comes naturally, and that unfortunately is a pedophile crisis within the Catholic Church, that is CREATED by this demonic rule.

Thank you for that truly moronic reference to 1 Tim. - which is a condemnation of the Gnostic heretics and NOT celibacy itself.
The Gnostics forbade marriage for EVERYONE and considered ALL material possessions and even certain foods to be evil.

Do your homework . . .

Behold · Feb 10, 2021

Truther said:
You skipped Acts 2:38.
If you were Peter and they asked you "what must we do", then what would you have told them?

If im Peter, in Acts 2, i would have said, "repent and be Baptized" all you JEWS.

But if im Paul, in the Time of the Gentiles, as the "Apostle to the Gentiles", then i would "preach the Cross", and teach that "all who call on the name of Jesus, shall be saved".

I would teach John 3:16, that say, whosoever "BELIEVES"

I would teach what i teach now...>"Justification by Faith", and "the Gift of Righteousness"...."the GIFT of Salvation", and "as many as believe on Jesus, to THEM God Gives the power to become a Son of God".

Just like that.
Just like Paul does it.

Behold · Feb 10, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
Thank you for that truly moronic reference to 1 Tim. - which is a condemnation of the Gnostic heretics and NOT celibacy itself.
The Gnostics forbade marriage for EVERYONE and considered ALL material possessions and even certain foods to be evil.

Do your homework . . .

Good try.

But its the Holy Spirit that says that the teaching of "forbidding to Marry" that your Church requires, is "demonic".

That is not going to change.
Fact are like that, so that's one more you can resist.

Fact the fact that this demonic teaching has caused a terribly sinful situation within the CC, that is going to continue.
And the pathetic part, is that its CAUSED by the Church itself.

Behold · Feb 10, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
And all those who deny the Baptism of Christ ignorantly refer to it as a "Water Cult".

A water cult is simply a religion that believes that water causes spiritual reconciliation between God and Man.

Imagine the ignorance of thinking that water can restore sinful man to Holy God.

Imagine a theology like this that has billions deceived , and= trusting WATER .

Imagine the ignorance of TRUSTING WATER.

Kinda crazy, when you realize it.

Marymog · Feb 10, 2021

Backlit said:
Not a very good diversion...too obvious. Read my post again. The Papal church disqualified itself from being the "pillar and ground for truth" when she apostatized and was married to another other than Christ. It is called spiritual adultery...joined to the kings of the earth. Jesus warned the church about such a move through His apostles..."Love not the world nor the things of the world. If any man (or church) love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1John 2:15
See Revelation 17:1,2.
Nor am I excusing any Protestant institution for partaking of the same apostasy...the same heresy...the same sins... Even more they are abandoning Protestantism and returning to Mother in order to partake of the same sins.. And eventually suffer the same judgement.
We are not saved, any of us, by belonging to a denomination. We are all, every one of us, saved as individuals, through faith in Christ.

Hey Backlit,

No attempt a diversion here.....Here is what you said: The Catholic Church, despite it's pretentious title, is not Catholic. The Papacy departed from any true relationship with Christ when she married the empire. Spiritual adultery when she abandoned Christ for politicians and they Kings of the world. The true Catholic faith resided in those who from the beginning opposed such a monstrous falling away from truth and we're persecuted by the Roman church for their troubles.

HERE IS MY RESPONSE: Hmmmm...Sooooo Protestantism is following the truth? With all your different men creating different doctrines and interpreting the same passage 3 different ways??? Protestants didn’t persecute anyone? Interesting theory...

See how I DIRECTLY ADDRESSED your two allegations from your post. Sooooooo that is NOT a diversion.

Soooo you have a theory that The Church "disqualified itself from being the "pillar and ground for truth" when she apostatized and was married to another other than Christ." I assume your theory is based on the Protestant teaching that Constantine took over The Church in the 4th century which is when The Church "abandoned Christ for politicians"??? Sooooooo which church, since the 4th century, has become the Pillar and ground for truth???? And please, please copout and tell me that we are all The Church....Please keep this in context to 1 Timothy 3:15 and Matthew 18:17 and how The Church acted with authority at The Council of Jerusalem!!!

Curious Mary

LATE EDIT: I forgot to mention...I like the avatar!!

Behold · Feb 10, 2021

Marymog said:
That makes ZERO sense....and here is why!

The Church has taught for 2,000 years that one must repent, be baptized and they will receive the Holy Spirit

You make a continuing mistake, Marymog.

You keep implying that "the chruch", is the body of Christ, when you only mean the Catholic Religion.

So, dont do that, as its insulting to all who are not involved with the Pope, Mary, Beads, Purgatory, Penance, Transubstantiation, and water regeneration.... and who acutally understand that a Cookie and Juice are not the literal body of Jesus that is being sipped, chewed, and swallowed.

Marymog · Feb 10, 2021

DNB said:
The Bible, seriously. History has proven that that no one denomination is reliable. This is where, Mary, you are missing the entirety of the point. You are staring at the culprits behind the most egregious crimes committed in all of Christendom, and you can't see where the church of Christ resides?
Why is that? How naive do you prefer to remain?

Good morning DNB,

Sooooo you are saying The Bible is the pillar and foundation of truth even though the Bible says The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth?????

And the Bible says go to The Church to settle our differences but you are saying we should go to The Bible to settle our differences???

That's just nonsensical gibberish!!

None the less....Thank you for your time!!!

Marymog · Feb 10, 2021

Behold said:
You make a continuing mistake, Marymog.

You keep implying that "the chruch", is the body of Christ, when you only mean the Catholic Religion.

So, dont do that, as its insulting to all who are not involved with the Pope, Mary, Beads, Purgatory, Penance, Transubstantiation, and water regeneration.... and who acutally understand that a Cookie and Juice are not the literal body of Jesus that is being sipped, chewed, and swallowed.

LOL...Behold you continue to crack me up. I am not implying anything. The Church, what you call RCC or Catholic Religion, has called itself The Church since the beginning. Go to Vatican.va and look at the historical documents it has on the website. It has always called itself "The Church".

You talk about being insulted but I am willing to bet I can find dozens of post by you insulting The Church and it's 2,000 year teaching by saying that "a Cookie and Juice are not the literal body of Jesus that is being sipped, chewed, and swallowed." Along with the dozens of other insulting posts from you on this forum about The Church....but your concerned that I am insulting you because you don't belong to The Church....weird!

FYI....It's not a cookie and juice that we consume in remembrance of Him like he told us to do. It is unleavened bread and wine which is what He and his Apostles consumed 2,000 years ago. Sooooo that destroys your insulting accusation that it is a mere cookie and juice....BTW it is your protestant friends that use cookies and juice!!

Jesus said it was his body/blood.....The Church....my Church not your church....still believes him and practices this ritual 2,000 years later. If your church is NOT doing what He told you to do then You to are welcome to join The Church which has been doing it for 2,000 years.

theefaith · Feb 10, 2021

Marymog said:
LOL...Behold you continue to crack me up. I am not implying anything. The Church, what you call RCC or Catholic Religion, has called itself The Church since the beginning. Go to Vatican.va and look at the historical documents it has on the website. It has always called itself "The Church".

You talk about being insulted but I am willing to bet I can find dozens of post by you insulting The Church and it's 2,000 year teaching by saying that "a Cookie and Juice are not the literal body of Jesus that is being sipped, chewed, and swallowed." Along with the dozens of other insulting posts from you on this forum about The Church....but your concerned that I am insulting you because you don't belong to The Church....weird!

FYI....It's not a cookie and juice that we consume in remembrance of Him like he told us to do. It is unleavened bread and wine which is what He and his Apostles consumed 2,000 years ago. Sooooo that destroys your insulting accusation that it is a mere cookie and juice....BTW it is your protestant friends that use cookies and juice!!

Jesus said it was his body/blood.....The Church....my Church not your church....still believes him and practices this ritual 2,000 years later. If your church is NOT doing what He told you to do then You to are welcome to join The Church which has been doing it for 2,000 years.

And it’s necessary for salvation
Jn 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Marymog · Feb 10, 2021

Behold said:
Paul did recommend celibacy, but that recommendation is based on God equipping you to exist in this lifestyle.
Where the CC makes a mess of this is by forcing their Priest's to exist as celibate, which is not scriptural.
The end result?
= Pedophilia.

Lol Behold....You continue to crack me up!!!

Ummmmm....The Church doesn't force celibacy upon men who are called to the priesthood to serve members of the flock. They volunteer or agree to be celibate!!! They KNOW what they are agreeing to!!!! You did know that simple, very well known fact....didn't you? And did you know that there are married priest also???

Sooooooo your theory is that if a man volunteers to be celibate then that automatically makes him desire be with children???? He throws away all his desires for women and focuses on children...That's your theory???? Do you have any science to back that up??? (I know you don't but I thought it would be fun to ask)

Keeping it real.....Mary

Who founded your church?

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