Demons/evil Spirits

religusnut · Oct 24, 2010

Exactly what is the consensus of most of the people on here concerning demons.....?

Do they exist today?

If they do exist today why are they not cast out of people by Christians as they were during the time of Jesus and his apostles lives?

Most denominations even modern Pentecostal ones shy away from talking about demons and deliverance.

Why is that?

aspen · Oct 24, 2010

There is actually an interesting history surrounding this question. First, there are now many conservative Protestant groups who do deliverance type ministries. So, anyway, there was a show down between a Catholic Priest and Protestant minister in the 18th century in America. It was a contest to deliver a demon from a girl. Apparently, it was a really huge deal - anyway, the priest won. Ever since that time, Protestant ministers have shied away from doing exorcisms. I know this sounds nuts - I learned about it on PBS, years ago. You might try googling it - I many not have all the details correct.

Peace

religusnut · Oct 24, 2010

aspen said:
There is actually an interesting history surrounding this question. First, there are now many conservative Protestant groups who do deliverance type ministries. So, anyway, there was a show down between a Catholic Priest and Protestant minister in the 18th century in America. It was a contest to deliver a demon from a girl. Apparently, it was a really huge deal - anyway, the priest won. Ever since that time, Protestant ministers have shied away from doing exorcisms. I know this sounds nuts - I learned about it on PBS, years ago. You might try googling it - I many not have all the details correct.

Peace

Those that support the ideas from the Bible that all the gifts of the spirit an basically everything to do with the power of God passing away seem to normally be silent on this subject. However if demons were that prevelent during the time of Jesus where did they all go? Are they not prevelant today? If they are prevelant today why is the chruch not doing anything about them?

aspen · Oct 24, 2010

religusnut said:
Those that support the ideas from the Bible that all the gifts of the spirit an basically everything to do with the power of God passing away seem to normally be silent on this subject. However if demons were that prevelent during the time of Jesus where did they all go? Are they not prevelant today? If they are prevelant today why is the chruch not doing anything about them?

I really do not think they were that prevalent. I think people demonized sickness back than, sort of like some demonize painful emotions or mental illness today. Christ healed far more people than He delivered from demons. The thing that is different today is that many Christians have fallen into the dualistic trap of believing that demons are equally matched against God.

Peace

Selene · Oct 24, 2010

religusnut said:
Those that support the ideas from the Bible that all the gifts of the spirit an basically everything to do with the power of God passing away seem to normally be silent on this subject. However if demons were that prevelent during the time of Jesus where did they all go? Are they not prevelant today? If they are prevelant today why is the chruch not doing anything about them?

Demonic possessions is rare, and exorcism is practiced only in the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and a few Protestant sects. A lot of cases that were referred to the churches for exorcism were actually individuals suffering from mental illnesses. However, there was a movie called "The Exorcist" which was based on a true story; but the victim was not a girl (as it was shown in the movie). It was a boy. Below is a weblink about the true story behind that movie. You may find it an interesting read.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/70799/the_true_story_of_the_exorcist.html?cat=41

In Christ,
Selene

Templar81 · Oct 25, 2010

I found an interesting article about it http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1998/dec/30/2

They do it a lot in the Phillipines, but it is done by witchdoctor types.

I think there's a fine line between mental illness and posession. I don't know anything about psychology but the human mind is so complex, but also as a Christian of course I believe there are angels and there are demons.

In the middle ages though it was thought that as a rule Christians couldn't get posessed because if you were a Baptized, and repented of your sins then Christ would give you a guardian angel that would block the attacks of a demon that the devil had sent to torment you or lead you astray.

Selene · Oct 25, 2010

Templar81 said:
I found an interesting article about it http://www.guardian....k/1998/dec/30/2

They do it a lot in the Phillipines, but it is done by witchdoctor types.

I think there's a fine line between mental illness and posession. I don't know anything about psychology but the human mind is so complex, but also as a Christian of course I believe there are angels and there are demons.

In the middle ages though it was thought that as a rule Christians couldn't get posessed because if you were a Baptized, and repented of your sins then Christ would give you a guardian angel that would block the attacks of a demon that the devil had sent to torment you or lead you astray.

Hi Templar,

The majority of the people in the Philippines are Catholic. If a person in the Philippines seek exorcism, they go to the Catholic Church, and the priests are not called "witchdoctors."

In Christ,
Selene

Templar81 · Oct 25, 2010

Selene
Come on! you know I'm not that silly. I know just as well as you do that the Phillipinse is a Catholic country and that Priests are not witchdoctors. The church doesn't like to do exorcisms so they seek out people who are prepard to do them, who use more pagan means to get the job done.

After all the posts of mine you've read do you really think I would call a Catholic Priest a witchdoctor?

Selene · Oct 25, 2010

Templar81 said:
Selene
Come on! you know I'm not that silly. I know just as well as you do that the Phillipinse is a Catholic country and that Priests are not witchdoctors. The church doesn't like to do exorcisms so they seek out people who are prepard to do them, who use more pagan means to get the job done.

After all the posts of mine you've read do you really think I would call a Catholic Priest a witchdoctor?

My brother, if I misunderstand your post, I apologize. However, the Catholic Church does not seek out people nor use pagans to perform exorcism. It is in the canon law of the Catholic Church that only a priest appointed by a bishop can perform exorcism (Code of Canon law 1172).

In Christ,
Selene

religusnut · Oct 25, 2010

So I take it that nobody here takes this seriously today. That is interesting. During Jesus Mininstry it was pretty common.

Selene · Oct 25, 2010

religusnut said:
So I take it that nobody here takes this seriously today. That is interesting. During Jesus Mininstry it was pretty common.

Hello Religusnut,

During Jesus ministry, exorcism was not very common at all. Jesus healed more sick and handicap people than driving out demons. If you look at the Gospels, the only demons he drove out was Legion who possessed a man (See Mark 5:9 and Luke 8:30), a man possessed in Capharnaum (Mark 1:23) a Gentile woman who was possessed (Mark 7:25) and Mary Magdalene who was also possessed by 7 demons (Luke 8:2). That's only a total of 4 people. Jesus healed more people who were handicapped and sick. So, even in Jesus' days, demonic possessions are rare.

In Christ,
Selene

religusnut · Oct 25, 2010

Selene said:
Hello Religusnut,

During Jesus ministry, exorcism was not very common at all. Jesus healed more sick and handicap people than driving out demons. If you look at the Gospels, the only demons he drove out was Legion who possessed a man (See Mark 5:9 and Luke 8:30), a man possessed in Capharnaum (Mark 1:23) a Gentile woman who was possessed (Mark 7:25) and Mary Magdalene who was also possessed by 7 demons (Luke 8:2). That's only a total of 4 people. Jesus healed more people who were handicapped and sick. So, even in Jesus' days, demonic possessions are rare.

In Christ,
Selene

As with most differences in topics of Christian things there is a difference if terminology. For instance Demon possession is the term that many use and consider that to be the only term associated with this. However having an evil spirit and being demon possessed can actually be two different things. That word Possessed is the issue.

Quick example. The bible refers to a spirit of fear. A person that deals with serious issues of fear are indeed dealing with a spirit of fear. When they repent for the fear possibly forgive whoever might be responsible for cause you to be that way...... That spirit can be evicted. Know it works seen it happen...... No demon possessed. Might even be a Christian person that has the spirit......

Some people differentiate the differences between the two words of possession and oppression.....

Others even debate as to where an evil spirit/demon lives. Some say that it stays around a person but can't be in the person.... Others disagree.

I do not believe that a born again christian can be Demon Possessed. HOWEVER there are Christians that have evil spirits that plague them.

Selene said:
Hello Religusnut,

During Jesus ministry, exorcism was not very common at all. Jesus healed more sick and handicap people than driving out demons. If you look at the Gospels, the only demons he drove out was Legion who possessed a man (See Mark 5:9 and Luke 8:30), a man possessed in Capharnaum (Mark 1:23) a Gentile woman who was possessed (Mark 7:25) and Mary Magdalene who was also possessed by 7 demons (Luke 8:2). That's only a total of 4 people. Jesus healed more people who were handicapped and sick. So, even in Jesus' days, demonic possessions are rare.

In Christ,
Selene

One other quick thing and I do not have time to hunt the scripture when Jesus sent he 70 out they returned telling him that even the demons or spirits were subject to them.... Wording not exact I know.

Templar81 · Oct 25, 2010

Argh Selene,
Of course the Catholic church would never sanction such dealings with Pagans but if the superstitious parents think a child is posessed and they take him to a priest who won't do anything hen they turn to a pagan healer. They only turn to the old magic when the church doesn't do anything. I don't think Canon law is uppermost in the minds of someone who lives in the countryside or a slum in Manilla. I wouldn't think they'd know a great deal aobut Canon law.

Selene · Oct 25, 2010

religusnut said:
As with most differences in topics of Christian things there is a difference if terminology. For instance Demon possession is the term that many use and consider that to be the only term associated with this. However having an evil spirit and being demon possessed can actually be two different things. That word Possessed is the issue.

Quick example. The bible refers to a spirit of fear. A person that deals with serious issues of fear are indeed dealing with a spirit of fear. When they repent for the fear possibly forgive whoever might be responsible for cause you to be that way...... That spirit can be evicted. Know it works seen it happen...... No demon possessed. Might even be a Christian person that has the spirit......

Some people differentiate the differences between the two words of possession and oppression.....

Others even debate as to where an evil spirit/demon lives. Some say that it stays around a person but can't be in the person.... Others disagree.

I do not believe that a born again christian can be Demon Possessed. HOWEVER there are Christians that have evil spirits that plague them.

Hi Religusnut,

You are correct.

A person who has a "spirit of fear" would have an unclean spirit, which is different from a person possessed by a demon. And the biblical scripture that I quoted in my post all refer to demon possession. So, that would be four in all.

One other quick thing and I do not have time to hunt the scripture when Jesus sent he 70 out they returned telling him that even the demons or spirits were subject to them.... Wording not exact I know.

The verse is in Luke 10:17. The verse does not say how many devils were cast out by the Apostles. It only says that the devils were subject even to them. It was subject to them because Christ gave them the authority to cast out demons.

In Christ.
Selene

Selene · Oct 25, 2010

Templar81 said:
Argh Selene,
Of course the Catholic church would never sanction such dealings with Pagans but if the superstitious parents think a child is posessed and they take him to a priest who won't do anything hen they turn to a pagan healer. They only turn to the old magic when the church doesn't do anything. I don't think Canon law is uppermost in the minds of someone who lives in the countryside or a slum in Manilla. I wouldn't think they'd know a great deal aobut Canon law.

Okay. I see what you mean now. By the way, I am half Filipina. My father is from the Philippine Islands and my mother is Chamorro (a native of Guam). The Pacific Islanders also have "healers" of their own. In my island, these healers are called "suruhanus." Some of the people on my island would also turn to the suruhanus, but not to get rid of a demon, but to heal an ailment. They usually go to a doctor in a clinic or hospital first. If the doctor cannot help them, then they turn to the suruhanus. The suruhanus use plants and herbs to make medicine. This knowledge of using plants as medicine was passed down through the generations. In my island, my long ago ancestors (who were pagans) do not believe in demonic possessions. They believed in the spirits of our ancestors (which we call taotaomonas). However, there are Pacific Islanders in the outer islands whose healers practice more than healing. They do get into the art of black magic. They don't conjure up demons, but they cast spells and make potions. :blink:

In Christ,
Selene

religusnut · Oct 25, 2010

Selene said:
Okay. I see what you mean now. By the way, I am half Filipina. My father is from the Philippine Islands and my mother is Chamorro (a native of Guam). The Pacific Islanders also have "healers" of their own. In my island, these healers are called "suruhanus." Some of the people on my island would also turn to the suruhanus, but not to get rid of a demon, but to heal an ailment. They usually go to a doctor in a clinic or hospital first. If the doctor cannot help them, then they turn to the suruhanus. The suruhanus use plants and herbs to make medicine. This knowledge of using plants as medicine was passed down through the generations. In my island, my long ago ancestors (who were pagans) do not believe in demonic possessions. They believed in the spirits of our ancestors (which we call taotaomonas). However, there are Pacific Islanders in the outer islands whose healers practice more than healing. They do get into the art of black magic. They don't conjure up demons, but they cast spells and make potions. :blink:

In Christ,
Selene

Selene,
I trained 2 weeks in Anchorage, Ak earlier this year with a ministry called Wellspring.

They teach people and then use counseling methods alone to see numerous people healed of something like 200 plus different diseases. In fact they say 70%+. The entire process is based on basically dealing with forgiveness and repentance. When this happens in a person's life an evil spirit has no rights to stay with a person and can easily be evicted. Many times without the person ever realizing that it was there in the first place if it is there. I have seen this work first hand and it is one of the most interesting things that I have ever seen.

We as human beings internalize so many things that we do not even realize we have. These things left there over time result in bitterness. When we get rid of the bitterness our bodies will cleanse and heal themselves many times within minutes or hours.

This teaching does not leave a person with intimidation and shame but instead helps that person be free from such.

I personally have met people that have been healed of many things while I was there. The most miraculous was MS. I met a lady there that had suffered from MS from 1996 till 2009. Today she is healthy and walks freely. I have also seen some of it since I came home and started teaching and counseling according to their methodologies.

I am not as proficient with the counseling end as I am with the teaching end of this but I am gaining experience on the counseling end now. By using those methodologies in teaching alone I have seen several people that suffered with things like migraine headaches that have been set free.

Martin W. · Oct 25, 2010

Anyone wanting a sobering look into the documented exorcisms of 5 living Americans can do so by reading "Hostage to the devil" by Malachi Martin.

Not reading for the weak in faith.

IanLC · Mar 29, 2011

Demons are real spiritual entities!

justaname · Mar 31, 2011

I believe they exist. Clearly scripture speaks of them. If you ask me the four times Jesus encountered them is a lot. Besides, as we know we don't have an exact day by day description so we don't really know how many he casted out.

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