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Hi Axehead, You said: 'Obedience is the proof of righteousness'. Obedience to what? As your emphasis is on physical evidence of perfect lifestyle/behavior of righteousness, then this would have to include the law of righteousness (10 commandments). As the law of righteousness is what...

Being crucified with Christ, Rom 6:6 I no longer live but Christ lives in me, Gal 2:20. If the root is holy, so are the branches, Rom 11:6 Our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3 And this is through believing God's promise that whosoever should believe on Jesus will have everlasting life...

This is where our gospels differ. You see ungodly as referring to imperfect behavior/lifestyle whereas I see ungodly as being without Christ. What is godliness? 1Tim 3:16 great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the...

Hi Axehead, 1Thess 4:3 says; For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication The fornication spoken of here is spiritual fornication. This is denying the gospel and establishing righteousness by works instead of by faith. As for physical...

Hi dragonfly, Rom 6:3,5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also of resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. How do you not serve sin...

Hi Axehead, jiggyfly and dragonfly, You shall know them by their fruit is referring to Christ in us. Jesus the firstfruits. It is Christ in us, the firstfruit, that makes us holy (Rom 11:16), sanctified (Heb 10:10), perfected (Heb 10;14), righteous and without sin (John 8:36, 1Pet 4:1, 1John...

Yes, I would agree. The thief demonstrated, by his works (believing on Jesus, John 6:29), his faith. 'His faith is counted for righteousness', Rom 4:5. And this is what all believers have done. Hence, Christians have ceased from sin as they abide in Christ. Where we disagree is that you don't...

Hi Axehead, Your suggestion that I might think the thief on the cross made an 'empty confession' is a bit out there. Considering what I have been sharing about his belief, why would you suggest otherwise? We clearly have differing views about 'abiding in Christ'. You seem to share Epi's...

Hi Epi, You fail to understand scripture with your claim that the thief on the cross was not holy. Heb 10:10 we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Act 26:18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of...

Hi Epi, If the thief on the cross was not made holy in Christ then we see what crowd he is with in 1Tim 1:9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of...

Hi Axehead, I considered that your 3 questions were answered. Perhaps you had some other point in mind that makes you feel my answers were inadequate. Justified by faith alone? Yes, of course. Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus...

Hi Axehead, Faith without works is dead (James 2:17). And how do we show our faith by our works? We believe on God's promise, obeying His will. John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” John 6:40 And this is the will of Him...

Hi Axehead, dragonfly and Epi, The thief on the cross who called Jesus 'Lord' was saved, righteous, holy, sanctified and perfected without any evidence of this in the physical. This contradicts your doctrine, in spite of your efforts to explain away this inconvenient truth. Your arguments that...

Hi Axehead, You said in the topic ‘Can You Be Righteous’, ‘If righteousness is not being manifested in and through us, is it possible that we are not saved and only walking in a form of godliness?’ As neither you nor your likeminded friend’s are manifesting this perfect behavior of...

Hi Axehead, You said: 'I don't claim perfect lifestyle.' I realise only whitestone has claimed perfect lifestyle/behavior/obedience (what he calls sinlessness). I know you and your friends have not claimed this. But, Epi and some others have claimed that perfect lifestyle/behavior/obedience...

Hi dragonfly, The early Christian churches had a mix of people similar to what we see today. And scripture shows that false doctrines were creeping in to some of them. When doctrines of works of self-righteousness (dead works) were creeping in, this is what the calls for repentance were...

Hi dragonfly, As it is the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the world is convicted of (John 16:9), why would you then determine anyone's salvation by any other measure? What other measure is there to determine one's salvation by, since the cross? Sin was dealt with once and for all on the cross...

Hi dragonfly, As I don't have as much time for forums as you have, I cannot afford the same lengthy replies explaining things in detail. With many of the scriptures you have quoted, what you apply to the physical, I see it in the spiritual. I will of course point out 1Cor 2:12-14 which tells...

Hi dragonfly, Excuse my probable misuse of the term 'OP'. What I meant was under the topic 'Sinless Perfection', you said, in regards to some examples of bad behaviors/lifestyles: " I have no idea how to weigh these things in eternal terms." I was questioning how such thinking about the...

Hi Axehead, I agree there is indoctrination leading people into error. And our debate has been specifically over lifestyle/behavior and whether an imperfect lifetsyle proves one is unsaved. You argue for a 'reality' of a perfect lifestyle as evidence of salvation. This is the 'indoctrination'...