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Thanks for posting the translation, so I don't have to. The translation disproves your own point. The atmospheric region, the lower air, as opposed to the upper air, proves we're talking about the air at ground level, not up in the sky. 1 Thess 4:17 then we who are living, who are remaining...

You seem like a rather closed minded person. Has anybody ever told you that? I bet your wife has told you that. Be honest.

Um... no, 2 Peter 3:6 is talking about the flood waters that destroyed the world. He's not talking about the end of the age. That's kind of weird that you would bring that up. I think Daniel 9:26 is a better reference: The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the...

We are currently living in "the age to come" which is the age of life. The age during which Jesus and the disciples lived, when they spoke of these things, was the current age, the age of death. During that age, people went from life to death. Now, we go from life, to life.

"Them in the clouds" refers to those who have received their glory. It's symbolic language. They're not actually in the sky, in the clouds. I mean, really, would it have to be cloudy over the entire earth that day? That's weird. I believe we had a similar discussion in another thread. So...

Ah, but the flood did happen. It was a flood of Roman soldiers that overcame the city. You can't say it's nonsense, just because it doesn't align with your vision for the future. You have to have a better reason than that. And, besides, it is an established fact, that the temple was built to...

I think that still refers only to those who have risen from the dead, because he says they can no longer die. I get what you're saying, but there's no reason that can't refer to our current age, because those who have been resurrected from the dead are living in our current age, together with...

Ah, interesting. Yes, myself, I don't believe in a rapture at all. I don't see the evidence for it. The tribulation, on the other hand, has already passed, and that occurred from 66 AD to 70 AD. Exactly 3.5 years. It was the most terrible time in history. Glad we missed it. All the...

Hey man! Glad to see you mentioned this part about heaven and earth. It's my favourite part of pre-trib-ism. :blush: You know why? Cause it turns out, that "heaven and earth" have already passed away. Betcha didn't know that! And yes, I'm being serious. The heaven and earth in this...

So, this is interesting. My Bible doesn't say "end of the world". It says "end of the age". What translation are you using?

Pretribber here. Howdy! :kiaora: So, you think a pretribber should be able to prove a rapture, a seven year trib and a third coming? I don't understand your statement here. None of those things exist, so why should you expect me to show you those scriptures? Did other pre-tribbers tell you...

That's awesome man. Glad to hear that's working for you. :Hnds

Nah man. I know the scriptures quite well. It's just a misunderstanding we have here. I have hundreds of documents where I've compiled scriptures on various studies, including one on apocalyptic language used in scriptures, such as clouds and the moon and sun not giving light, etc. Lotsa...

Hey, thanks for the tip man! lfh

No, you made it up in regards to what the angels said about Jesus' return, where you claimed he would literally return in a cloud, because when he left, a cloud hid him from view. The angels never said he would return in a cloud. There is no scripture that says Jesus will return in a literal...

Well, that was when I finally understood what you meant, when you said that part. :gd

Ah, yes, but now you're back to quoting symbolic language. I thought we were talking about Jesus returning "in like manner", in which Jesus ascended until a cloud hid him from their view. Didn't you claim that verse as proof that he would return in a cloud? Yes, I'm pretty sure you did...

Marty, I just have to say, and I can't be the only one, but the guy in your avatar picture, who I can only assume is you, looks like Marty McFly, played by Michael J. Fox, who also lived in Vancouver, and so every time I see your name Marty Fox, and that avatar picture, I think of Marty McFly...

I wanted to give you a half like, but I can only give you a full like, so I gave you a full like, even though I only agree with half of what you said. I like your style, and I like your post, but this notion of an anti-Christ is exactly the kind of deception you're railing against. Ironic...

Ah, I get what you mean now. You're saying that since all believers are the new Jerusalem, that means all unbelievers are mystery Babylon. Why didn't you just say so?