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With what you submitted in mind. Here is an interesting passage below everyone should also be familiar with. Do you then think Samuel came up bodily? 1 Samuel 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she...

Try reasoning it like this instead. How can God be the God of the living unless someone in a disembodied state can rise bodily and live forever? Can they live forever while in a disembodied state? Could Jesus live forever while He was in a disembodied state, meaning while He was physically...

Since Amils are applying a disembodied state rather than a bodily state to the saints in Revelation 20:4 after they are physically dead then seen living and reigning with Christ, this apparently means they place a disembodied state above that of a bodily state. They see the former being the...

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. 26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham...

LOL. I didn't take his post in that manner. I didn't feel like he was being hostile per that post. I didn't see anything wrong with his post. But it did surprise me when I found out Amils don't even think anyone in verse 4 was martyred, though. Imagine that, being beheaded but it doesn't even...

I thought everyone agreed they were martyrs, even Amils? I thought, per your view they would be being martyred during the thousand years? Per my view they would be martyred before the thousand years. Per Amil how did they die to begin with if you don't agree they were martyred, for instance...

Though, I tend to think you are a bit more reasonable than some of these other Amils around here are, you are still not reasonable enough. Let's get on the same page here. I'm meaning saints that have been martyred. That's what verse 4 is pertaining to. Initially, John sees the souls of them...

For one thing, I don't take the sheep and goats judgment to be meaning the great white throne judgment to begin with. Anyone paying attention to the context leading up this judgment, and has even minimal discernment, should easily note that the context was involving profitable and unprofitable...

Wonder what Amils think is gained by first seeing the souls of them, where their souls are obviously already alive to begin with, then when they are living with Christ, thus the first resurrection, they are still in the same state after the resurrection they were in before the resurrection, a...

IOW, you don't believe the rapture and the last trump(1 Cor 15:51-57) precedes the great white throne judgment? According to Revelation 20:11-15, everyone standing there in front of Christ are described as the dead. No one, once what is recorded in 1 Cor 15:51-57 has happened to them would still...

And what does that obviously prove? It proves they were born again. And not, they physically die, then they become born again after they have died, thus the first resurrection. That's backwards and not even Biblical. Why can't Amils see that the first resurrection is being applied to them after...

Even though I'm not an Amil myself I do comprehend your point here. And it would be a valid point assuming the first resurrection is involving being born again, something Jesus never needed to do. But if it in meaning a bodily resurrection in this case, as Premils tend to believe, your argument...

Can you explain in what way this would equal them overthrowing the faith of some? ---------------------------- overthrow anatrepw anatrepo an-at-rep'-o from ana - ana 303 and the base of troph - trope 5157; to overturn (figuratively):--overthrow, subvert. ---------------------------...

In Revelation 20 the following is meaning the 2nd resurrection and is obviously meaning the resurrection unto damnation. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. He that alleges must prove. If you don't believe me, ask @WPM since he is the one that uses...

That would be a good point except that is not the way he is reasoning it. He already showed how he was reasoning it. He used 1 Corinthians 15:23 to do so then explained why it would be the 2nd resurrection if coming from the perspective of 1 Corinthians 15:23. Whether he is right or wrong, there...

Here you are flat out lying about me. I have no Premil mentors. Since I have a brain of my own I am perfectly capable of reasoning through things on my own, I then form my own conclusions first, then I sometimes check other sources to see if anyone else is coming to the same or similar...

To add to my post #91 since it is being ignored thus far by Amils, I submit this. Even those cross reference sites where you can check cross refs, that if you submit Daniel 7:22 it lists Revelation 20:4 as a cross ref. That if you submit Daniel 7:21 it lists Revelation 13:5-7 as a cross ref...

FWIW, I get your point loud and clear. I have no reading comprehension issues with what you are arguing and why you are arguing it the way you are. That's what's wrong with Amil here. The way they are interpreting Revelation 20:4 does not flow into verses 7-9. They have it disconnected from...

No doubt about it Amils are clearly twisting what the first resurrection in Revelation 20 is pertaining to, that being the bodily resurrection of saints in the future. In regards to that you and I are on the same page. I'm just not seeing, at least not yet anyway, the alleged connection with...

Here's my thinking on it, right or wrong. It obviously can't be involving what is recorded in Revelation 20 pertaining to the first resurrection if John hadn't even seen these visions yet. Duh! Right? IOW, they couldn't be trying to confuse anyone about Revelation 20 if Revelation 20 didn't even...