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I THINK we agree. Jesus would have certainly disagreed at such an "egregious" statement were it NOT true. The Messiah was a SENT ONE by God.....(annointed). Jesus was certainly this. But more.

This is why we MIGHT want to go outside the bible.... Is OSAS correct? A case could be made either way using random verses. Did those the Apostles taught believe in OSAS? Does the answer not matter at all to you? (guess not).

I've been telling you for years....here it is again: WORKS WITHOUT FAITH WILL NOT SAVE. FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS A DEAD FAITH. It's simple.

You have just removed any meaning from the word CHRISTIAN. No. It was changed for a reason. There are even more creeds. It's like the covenants....no one covenant abolished the ones prior... they added something or they improved it, or otherwise changed it somehow. I didn't say it would MAKE...

I just want @Matthias to see the above. We were just discussing how some will not accept history. It's your prerogative....I just wanted to know as much as I could. They are not to be followed blindly, especially since on some topics they didn't agree 100%...but still, many topics are...

What did Jesus mean then when He answered in Mark 12:35-37 ? And why did Jesus not protest at John 20:28?

I'm sorry EG,,,I'm not following. Maybe I'm just too tired... You don't trust church history? You don't trust someone like Ignatius of Antioch? He was taught by John.

Idem. Agreed. I do want to say that the other 4 "Popes" that existed at the beginning of the church DID look to Peter, the Bishop at Rome, for settling some disputes because he had been an Apostle. (Rome, Antioch, Jerusalem, Constantinople, Alexandria). Finally, yes, it was decided that there...

Yes. I'm saying that I don't see the difference. Well then, WHAT IS A CHRISTIAN? Someone that follows Jesus? Is that sufficient? OK But then what DOES make you a Christian? I had a thread on this once...but I can't be starting threads anymore. It's NOT above the bible. You haven't answered...

I'm going to have to put off the reading till tomorrow.... I must not be 60 anymore!! But will get back to you. If you don't mind... what is in the Nicene Creed - either one - that is not in primitive Christianity? What does it assert that goes beyond what is in the NT?

PS I'm not a scholar so my info on church history is very limited and it just seems to come and go and I don't study much anymore. But what got me interested were 2 ideas: 1. Was Peter really the first Pope? I didn't feel I should trust the CC regarding this. 2. Are works necessary for...

Did I misspeak? I meant that many Christians believe that church history ended with Acts. Of course, those that have studied some church history know that it continued after that and up to this very day. Correct. My point is that there is only one God....not three. Are you saying that the...

It was amended in 381, but then pushed back to 325...if I remember my history correctly. I'd have to check to be absolutely certain and I'm just too tired now. Wait... Oh. It's missing the Holy Spirit. Maybe I don't remember correctly... Primitive Christianity....I see the Nicene Creed in...

LOL Yes,,,,but YOU are not the one to set the standard! I'm surprised that you know church history and still make this assertion....most Christians I know believe all church history ended with the last pages of Acts. ALL Christians believe in the Shema. And I agree with all the creeds except...

No. I'd say what the other member is saying has to do more with interpretation. No big deal... I mean, I do believe we should actually war against satanic issues or influence and not just sit and wait to see what happens because WE are not personally affected.... But I won't be convincing...

How did man write the standard? Where did he get the ideas from? Wasn't it what the NT taught? Which part of the following did MAN write? The (Original) Nicene Creed of 325 We believe in one God, the Father almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in...

Yes,,,you know me...I just can't go on forever. Our points have been made.... God is good and just...'nuff said. :blush:

OK So what you're saying is: ONLY contradictions regarding salvific issues would be important to you.....? But you originally said any contradiction would be a flaw.... Which is it?

Will read it later on....dinner time over here. Or at least, the preparation of it.... :blush: Sounds interesting....

OK, but I don't know how to get around that. Of course the Jews were monotheistic. Of course Jesus was Jewish. He believed in montheism. So do Christians! There is only One God.... What about Gregory??