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Forgive me, but you may believe you posted verses previously that showed a distinct difference between 'church' and 'tribulation saints', but you have not. And I'm sorry, but just saying "John, 3rd John, Jude and Hebrews" as 'scriptural proof' of these two groups is laughable at best. You...

That would have been most difficult for you to do, seeming as though "tribulation saints" doesn't appear in scripture. And, compounding that problem, considering 'saints' is thoroughly used throughout the NT in conjunction with the "one body". As I keep telling you; the onus is upon you to prove...

Ug. You totally missed my point. I'm not saying that there will not BE a tribulation. Yes, I expect that there probably will. But can you prove that this 'tribulation' will be the wrath that people will suffer under judgment for not believing in Jesus Christ? Because I showed that "tribulation"...

Such as?

I agree its a stretch, and yet many Dispensationalists seem to hold this view, even though it clearly violates the literalist tenet they hold so firm. And this is not the only place where they are forced to do so in the book. Many Dispensationalists I have spoken to have said that it is only...

Incorrect. We see in Romans 9 that God's 'purpose of election' was at work even as early as Isaac and Esau. Indeed...that it "might continue" at this stage. This outright tells us that those belonging to God, even at this point, were 'elect'. We know, from other passages (Rom 4:3; Gal 3:6) that...

Ah. No. No it was you saying that all the Jews were already at Christ's back when he comes to judge the others that lead to that assumption. It was also the fact that you are claiming a clear distinction between Jew and Gentile that lead to that assumption. Hear me again. You cannot claim on...

Thank you! We are all praying for that.

This is fine. However...for those who champion a strict 'literal' interpretation...indeed, those who jeer at others who do not follow said interpretation, fall upon their own interpretive sword, as it were, when they take such an uncalled view of these letters. 'Literalists' like to claim that...

3 different categories of people, yes, but in very clear context: not "Christian Jews", "Christian Gentiles" and the church of God, which would be rather superfluous, would it not, having just listed all Christian believers. But very clearly Paul is talking about unbelieving Jews, unbelieving...

Yeah, well, she's doing her own thing now; we asked her to hold off on some things til she turned 18, but allowed her full autonomy over such things once she turned 18. I don't think she'll go wild all at once, but I certainly won't be surprised if she adds piercings or even tattoos over the...

Well, I suppose it's unsurprising that precursors of Dispensationalism might be found in history. It would be more unusual, I think, for a fully formed doctrine to be birthed all at once.

May I ask you a question? How you do view the 7 Churches in Revelation? Are they simply written to those, particular, physical, literal Churches? Or, as most Dispensational folk do...do you see those 7 Churches as a representation of all the 'dispensations' of Churches down through the last 2000...

I'm sorry...can I just confirm...are you saying that Amil folks say that Jesus HAS already returned?

"What WE call the tribulation". Yes...this is part of the problem. You are relying on what "we" say, not scripture. Because...there is a difference in escaping 'wrath' and escaping 'tribulation'. The bible tells us about tribulation: I have said these things to you, that in me you may have...

I...was being sarcastic. You see...when you insist that there must be distinction between Jew and Gentile...and then also insist that God is going to "force them into the NC"...where Jews and Gentiles become one body in Christ....you DO realise that you are arguing against yourself...right? Ok...

I challenge you to go through scripture and cough up proof that all the different 'names' found in scripture for those belonging to Jesus: the elect, Saints, the Church, saved, believers; weren't used in a synonymous way. Because they clearly are. Then, go through and find me proof that shows...

At the moment she's focused on the piercing side of things: she's working on stretching her ear ones (ug....I hate that look) and wants to...when she works up the nerve, to get a nose ring. But she's been super busy finishing some training at the moment, then looking for work, so all that might...

I don't know a lot about Darby, to be perfectly honest, but using him ("it's so new!!!") as the essential argument against the doctrine is fraught with difficulties. Because a good number arguing against him are mostly likely from the Reformation side of things...which is relatively 'new' too...

Well...yes. There was the Rapture. Which is clearly alive Christians...and resurrected believers and resurrected wicked. The point I was attempting to make was that the passages link them all together, time-wise. Which is something Dispensationalists like to separate, I believe.