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Those who are self assured with their own righteousness.

The verse cited goes hand in hand with... Romans 7:4 NASB [4] Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. And in context of Rom...

Would posters please refrain from posting on the Trinitarian / non-trinitarian doctrine, as that is not the topic here.

The problem here is that there is none that seek after God (Romans 3:11)). Often what we call seeking is actually 'running from' God by establishing our own religions and righteousness.

Yes, they must believe they are truly sinful before they would respond to their true need for saving. Then they must believe the revelation of Jesus Christ found in the Gospel to place their faith in that Person...in order that they may be saved.

I used to take that verse as only the elect will be drawn. Now I take it to mean Jesus is telling them 'the only way to the Son (and thus Life) is by the Father drawing them. IOW, not by their own ingenuity, religious status and privilege, keen intellect etc.. This does not necessitate only...

How would you handle this verse?... but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (Joh 20:31)

But unbelievers aren't saved until they repent and believe...they remain unbelievers according to their old nature.

LOL, I hadn't thought of it from your 2nd view. This is what Dave had said... Dave L Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit you must have before you can believe. If you would like to start a thread, it would make an interesting discussion. Today at 12:25 PM Report So I think that was his intended...

Are You Saved Because You Believe OR Do You Believe Because You Are Saved? This was a similar question to what Dave_L posted on his Profile page. This is posted with his permission. Would any like to chime in? Keep it umm, err, civil :)

If that is what you have been quibbling about all this time fine. My point is that even what they proclaimed verbally and others believed (I never directly refuted that), had to be grounded in Scripture. Even Jesus appealed to the Scriptures by saying "It is written" time and time again. I...

Are you playing 'Gotcha' lol? By Word, I mean verbal or written. Especially for us today, what we hear verbally must accord with what is written, whether by dream, vision, or spoken word. Here is an example... But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that...

Zacchaeus had heard the written Torah read to him in the Temple. (Luke 19:9) It does matter.

See post #176.

Yes, but you are using an instance where there is an obvious bias in translation to make your case. Pascha is passover. It is only Easter to a a group that wants to ditch any vestiges of Jewish Holidays and such.

Sure, what they heard verbally then, is what we now have written. 1 John 1:1-3 NKJV [1] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life- [2] the life was manifested, and...

General principles aren't built on the exceptions. Neither do I hold to faulty translations.

I take it you mean dreams and visions etc. But how would they know that that wasn't a trick of the enemy as satan himself can disguise himself as an angel of light. There has to be that absolute standard to test such experiences. Isaiah 8:20 (KJV) To the law and to the testimony: if they speak...

There were Scriptures pointing to Jesus long before the NT... And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luk 24:27) And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way...

I'm not sure why you think I'd disagree with the above point. Scripture is the verbal Word written. They heard the verbal Word necessary to lead one to Jesus. Perhaps we are talking past each other?