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  1. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Here's what I said when I mis-spelled YHWH: "YWHY committed that privilege to Jesus. Wait a second; one part of God committing something to another part? What? Oh my, the web weaved by the trinity seemingly knows no boundaries." I don't know why you point out the speck in my eye while ignoring...
  2. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Many would rather believe the scriptures were given last year in LA or New York rather than to an Ancient Near Eastern people several thousands of years ago. Apparently, the attitude is, "Who cares what Israel thought about God? We'll make Him fit our own ways and times."
  3. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    While Trinitarians are quick to condemn those who disagree to eternal torture, I can't recall ever seeing it go the other way. That in itself ought to speak volumes. There are many passages on how to get saved and not a single one mention the trinity let alone the requirement to believe it. As...
  4. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Logic is avoided simply be saying God's ways are above our ways. That is true enough, but it does not say we can't understand His ways once they've been revealed and Jesus certainly revealed the Father to us. If, as 1 Cor 2:16 says, we have the mind of Christ, then we ought to know what's what...
  5. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    All so true. The trinity makes the best story ever told and into an incoherent mess. It's a clear indication of God's resourcefulness that anyone holding to the trinity doctrine can even be born again. Grace upon grace I guess. Love covers a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8). The "go to" answer...
  6. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Exactly! Here's a few more verses that explicitly call Jesus a man: Rom 5:15, But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many...
  7. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Why did you leave out the verses that I quoted that clearly say God can and does change His mind? Jer 18:6-10, 6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay [is] in the potter's hand, so [are] ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. 7 [At what]...
  8. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    You are building a doctrine on a few verses that are at best inferential while ignoring many many crystal clear verses that say Jesus was a man just like the rest of us. Well, there is one big difference. Instead of inheriting the sin of Adam through Adam's seed, Jesus was the result of a...
  9. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Romans says that death came by man and so did our salvation. God gave man dominion in Genesis and He also gave us free will. God does not force anything on us. He only tries to convince us to do the right thing, but ultimately it's up to our own choices. I believe it took 4,000 years to convey...
  10. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    I like to say the scriptures weren't written last year in LA or New York for Yankee Doodle Americans. It seems obvious, but is often forgotten, leading to many errors, the trinity being but one. But then again, even in America there has never been the idea that a son can be his own father...
  11. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    As you say, God does not change. Almost paradoxically, part of His not changing is His prerogative to change certain things depending on the choices people make. Jer 18:6-10, 6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay [is] in the potter's...
  12. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Or we could just as easily say that God does not change in the sense that He will always be whatever Israel needed Him to be. Yes I did misspell YHWH again. You caught me yet again making a mistake. On the other hand you keep making the same mistake every time you tell me that God matters...
  13. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    I take it you've still not researched how the ancient Jews viewed pre-existance? You really should, given that the scriptures were given to them some time ago and written in their terms. They certainly weren't weren't written last year in LA or New York.
  14. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    I'm glad I don't have to stand before you at the end. 1 Cor 4:3-5, 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 5...
  15. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Either I wasn't clear (highly possible :)) or you misunderstood. What I said about YHWH is that He would be whatever Israel needed Him to be in order to get them out of Egypt and into the Promised Land. This is in direct contrast with all the other Ancient Near East Gods who had set functions...
  16. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    1 Cor 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. Where does it say the scriptures don't make sense? It certainly doesn't say that once born again, a person...
  17. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Not so fast my friend! It is a linguistic fact that "I am" can be translated as "I will be." The Tyndale Bible (the first English translation from Hebrew & Greek) translates it that way. There are other versions that also translate it that way. Understanding the nature of all the other gods...
  18. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    You mentioned my use of the word "with" instead of "in." So why do you mention "the person of the Father" and "the person of the Word?" Those phrases aren't in the scriptures anymore than "they be one WITH us." While astute enough to spot my error of changing "in" to "with," you don't seem as...
  19. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    I see your point. So you and I are not one with Jesus and God. OK. However, you and I (and all other Christians) are actually one person? Or should I say millions of people with one essence to keep with the traditional verbiage? Does that even make any difference, let alone sense? I'm thinking...
  20. Rich R

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Since the scriptures were given to the Jews (Rom 3:2), you may want to see what they thought of preexistence. You are coming from a Greek philosophy perspective. I know you wrote a lot more, but it's all from tradition, a dangerously unreliable source indeed. You appear to be OK with that, so...