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Well, in my estimation, that is the reason the Council of Trent officially adopted them into the Canon. This council gave the first "official ruling" on the matter, even though it was worded to sound as a "re-affirmation." It is simply not the case that early councils show that these books...

If the assertion here is that "all" refers to "all people groups" and not specifically all individuals, I think that this is highly problematic (even though I respect Leon Morris' writings). This essentially is spitting hairs that I do not think the context indicates Jesus was trying to split...

Ok, so what I am gathering is that you are a non-Calvinist that believes in free-will but just that once a person has "real faith bro" (lol) then they eternally secure. Some comments you made in the past made it sound to me like you were a Calvinist who believed in limited atonement...so I was...

Ok, so let me get this straight... Sinful people have a choice to believe or not. If they believe, God then has a choice as to whether or not to grant saving faith. To some he gives saving faith but not to others or does everyone who chooses to believe receive saving faith? I have two more...

Yeah but I cant make a "human response" if God does not give me the saving faith. Correct? So salvation is monergistic and thus we can ONLY conclude that someone isnt saved its because they did not receive faith so they could make a response. I am just asking if that is what you are ready to...

Yes, but a key phrase here is "an organ serving two purposes." So, again, the idea that the pelvic bones of a whale which are used for reproduction were once used for walking (or maybe walking and reproduction simultaneously!?) is not based in any science. There is no science to show that...

Jesus said through the cross he would "draw all men" to himself (John 12:32). This verse teaches God's grace in drawing people and Jesus' power to preserve those who trust him. It does not teach limited atonement. The point of this verse (and the entire first three chapters of Romans) is to...

mjhealth, I find it more than troublesome that anytime someone tries to make a point from the Bible, you diminish the Bible by saying its about "Spirit." Then, when someone tries to point in an area concering the Spirit, you start quoting the Bible. As I see it, this is nothing more than a...

I agree Stan.

Oz, One could say that "Calvinism," as we know it today, was not at all developed by Calvin. TULIP is not something that was taught by Calvin, himself. Yet, that is beside the point. My point was not that OSAS as we understand it today was taught by Augustine. Rather, I think your quotes...

FHII, I find the response puzzling as well. If salvation is monergistic, then I dont understand why ATP makes it sound like its the individual's fault for not believing or the false prophet's fault for teaching error. If true faith can only come from God, then how is it not God's fault if a...

River, I have always understood the term to mean that the vestige has little to no use due to the development of the organism in its evolutionary process. This is how the term was used in many biology textbooks as well. I do remember my biology classes in middle, high school and...

Are you denying that text books and previous evolutionary theories suggested that the small pelvic bones of a whale were vestigial leg bones? If I point to some textbooks that had this information will you concede that I am right and you are wrong on this entire subject? Out of time.

tom55, Those are puzzling verses. Here is my take on them (though I could very well be wrong): In my view, the original authors of the books of the Bible were inspired by God. Thus, the way to find the "right" Bible is to try to find translations that reflect, as closely as possible, what...

Still didnt answer the question. If God grants persevering faith, then the reason people go to hell is because God did not grant them the kind of faith that can save them. Correct?

There was another guy who felt that the whole church was corrupt and only he saw the flaws and thus appointed himself as God's vessel to right all those wrongs from those evil church leaders throughout history. His name was Joseph Smith. Can we get back to the OP now?

I gave you the example of whale bones used for giving birth were declared to be vestigal leg bones in evolutionary theory and published as such in many biology text books for many years. Just because I choose not to engage in yet another lengthy and meaningless debate on which scientists...

ATP, You didnt answer my question. If we persevere because God causes us to, are you ready to accept the implications that every person who finds themselves in eternal torment ends up there because God chose them to not have persevering faith?

So, I "submit" myself only to the local "Church" that agrees with me on all points. Then it is "His Church?" Maybe that is not what you mean, but it can certainly be interpreted that way. I get what you are saying, but that doesnt really sound like "submission" to me. It sounds more like...

I have no idea what this means...."Faith only comes once." Can you show me this in the Scriptures? Everything I have read says we are to "persevere" in the faith, "fight the good fight" of the faith, "hold fast" to our faith and "endure" in the faith. It sounds to me like faith is a way of...