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  1. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    This is true, Pro. Jehovah's Witnesses in this forum have been shown to be incorrect on several minor doctrines, such as the teachings on Adam and Eve, Genesis 3:15, God's future plans for natural Israel, and others. As an organization, it has both strengths and weaknesses. F2F
  2. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    @Dan Clarkston thankfully we understand enough about the One True God to know He has no equal (authority)! F2F
  3. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    The Bible is much more nuanced than you may have been taught. If you are a fundamentalist who believes that every word is directly inspired, you may find yourself disappointed. Many of the Psalms have been altered and rearranged, and there are numerous verses in the Bible that translators...
  4. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    @Johann how did you gowith those questions on the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit now Jesus' Father? F2F
  5. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Trinitarians have grubby hands and they like to tamper with the text - hand in the cookie jar!
  6. face2face

    How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

    The issue with your reference is you have a man made lower than the angels and then given a position above them. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. Heb 1:4 Is this the type of expression of a God? Nice try Davy!...Yahweh the...
  7. face2face

    How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

    So are you saying Manna has no spiritual meaning at all? Just bread for you?
  8. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    As I review these questions, I’m starting to see some that could stand alone as individual discussion points. What worries me is that, despite the likely high average IQ of the Nicene Council members, they still produced one of the most convoluted and incomprehensible sets of teachings in...
  9. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    I'm just getting warmed up Johann. We have many conundrums to solve tonight! I've already outlined about 6-7 clear questions that highlight discrepancies in the doctrine you currently hold. I'm wondering if you have ever considered them or will I receive another unrelated screen dump? F2F
  10. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    In 17 epistles that begin with an acknowledgement of grace and peace, only one mentions the Holy Spirit, and then only as the means of sanctification, not as the source of grace. Why is there an acknowledgment of God and Christ, but not to the Holy Spirit, if the latter were a Person within the...
  11. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    @Johann When God sent the Holy Spirit to anoint Jesus in Matt. 3:16 / Luke 4:18). Is it plausible that "God the Father" sent "God the Holy Spirit" to anoint "God the Son" with "God the Holy Spirit"?
  12. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    @Johann Sorry in a similar vain. Likewise, the Holy Spirit was imparted through the laying on of hands (Acts 8:17-19). Does this suggest the transmission of a divine Person within the Godhead? To be clear, you believe this practice of laying on of hands held the Power to direct the Holy...
  13. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    @Johann Okay so you have dismissed personification. Here is another question 5th When Jesus breathed on the disciples and they received the Holy Spirit in John 20:22, this language makes sense if a Power was being imparted, but seems less fitting if the Holy Spirit were understood as a divine...
  14. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    @Johann A 4th question (unanswered) It was the power of the Highest that "overshadowed" Mary in Luke 1:35. However, if the Holy Spirit were a Person within the Godhead, then the Holy Spirit, rather than the Father, would be considered the true father of Jesus. F2F
  15. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    It's quite strange – you are shown to be mistaken on several points and topics, yet you never engage with the context of the discussion. Are you aware of this pattern? It seems like you've decided that personification is never used in the Word of God, and instead of addressing that, you bring...
  16. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    No, when you are exposed to the Fathers Writ you gain an understanding of how He communicates. For instance:- You would teach that sin is a person who receives wages. Romans 6:23 says, "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord I...
  17. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    @Johann, you have some challenging questions to answer, and I will be following up with you on them in the morning. F2F
  18. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Correct, the personification of the Spirit and the use of personal pronouns are given to bring us closer to God and His Spirit Word. How do you expect His Power to be communicated? He uses personification everywhere in His Word - I honestly thought with all your commentaries you would know...
  19. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    @Johann Last one for tonight The divine order is outlined in 1 Corinthians 11:3: "But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God." Why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned here if He were a person?
  20. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    @Johann Why is the Holy Spirit not depicted as sitting on God's throne? (See Rev. 7:10 - "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." Also Acts 7:55, 56). Why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned in these instances?