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  1. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    From a variety of Bible study articles many years ago. It particularly refers to the Great Multitude class of Revelation 7. Revelation 7:14-15 (WEB): (14) I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, “These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made...
  2. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Can you be precise - what is bad? That I believe they died again? Well there is nobody living today that is nearly 2,000 years old, so I'm sure they did die! Or were you referring to Paul's point that the patriarchs and other Old Testament saints would not receive their promised reward and...
  3. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    David's body has decayed. Peter explained that David was prophetically referring to the coming Messiah - Acts 2:25-32 (WEB): (25) For David says concerning him, ‘I saw the Lord always before my face, For he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved. (26) Therefore my heart was glad...
  4. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Calling somebody a hypocrite is not calling them names or deliberately insulting them, it's just plainly telling them what they are (a dictionary definition is "A person who pretends to be what he or she is not; specif., one who pretends to be pious, virtuous, etc. without really being so")...
  5. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    I have to agree. The word patriarch is only used four times in the bible: Acts 2:29 “Brothers, I may tell you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Acts 7:8 He gave him the covenant of circumcision. So Abraham became the father...
  6. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    I can't think of an example of Jesus calling people names and throwing insults at people. He always spoke firmly but with love and sympathy for their fallen condition. Sorry, I didn't mean to direct that post just at you! I just quoted your previous post as the most recent example in the...
  7. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Let's try to not forget: Galatians 5:22-26 (WEB): (22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, (23) gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. (24) Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and...
  8. keithr

    Why is ISLAM : Dedicated to destroying Israel?

    Okay, but that is a different subject, and I was not sabre-rattling! My post was more in keeping with this discussion about "why Islam is dedicated to destroying Israel". God speaks of the perpetual hatred between Esau and Jacob (Israel) because Jacob took Esau's birthright and his blessing -...
  9. keithr

    Why is ISLAM : Dedicated to destroying Israel?

    Satan doesn't just use Islam, of course. It is estimated that between 50 and 100 million Christians were killed in the Middle Ages by the Papacy, e.g. a quote from ESTIMATES OF THE NUMBER KILLED BY THE PAPACY IN THE MIDDLE AGES AND LATER: "From the birth of Popery in 606 to the present time...
  10. keithr

    Why is ISLAM : Dedicated to destroying Israel?

    I don't understand your criticism. You quoted my quote of Psalms 83, then said that the passage of Ezekiel 38 has not happened yet, but I never mentioned the prophecy against Gog, nor said that it has already happened! My post was about the perpetual hatred that the arabs have for the Jews...
  11. keithr

    Why is ISLAM : Dedicated to destroying Israel?

    [I wrote this about 23 years ago, but it's still relevant.] The Perpetual Hatred To understand more clearly what God foretold concerning the events that would take place between the nation of Israel and the Arab nations in these latter days, we need to trace these nations history back to their...
  12. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    1 Corinthians 15 (WEB): (37) That which you sow, you don’t sow the body that will be, but a bare grain, maybe of wheat, or of some other kind. (38) But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own. (44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual...
  13. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Being present with the Lord is a different meaning from being "absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord", which implies that being dead is to be alive and with Jesus. "Is" to be has a different meaning from "and" to be. The Greek word is kai, which means 'and, also, even, indeed...
  14. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    You are misquoting the Bible. There is no English translation of the Bible that says "is to be present with the Lord". 2 Corinthians 5:8 (WEB): (8) We are courageous, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord. Paul is saying that we are...
  15. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Christians that die before Christ's return are dead (or "sleeping" as Jesus refers to it) - they are not immediately restored to life, nor taken to be with Jesus. As Paul explained, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (WEB): (15) For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who...
  16. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    You should learn from Jesus, who said, Matthew 11:29 (KJV): (29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. To be meek means to be patient, mild and gentle, not inclined to anger or resentment. "Lowly in heart" means to...
  17. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Two reasons why the rapture has to be pre-tribulation: 1. The rapture is imminent, i.e. Jesus tells us that we don't know when he will come, it could happen at any moment - there are no events or signs that must precede the rapture. Therefore the foretold events of the Great Tribulation...
  18. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Jesus was talking about the coming Great Tribulation - Luke 21:25-26 (WEB): (25) There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars; and on the earth anxiety of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the waves; (26) men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which...
  19. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    All the reasons and arguments in the video are based on Scripture. I urge you to watch it, but like leading a horse to water, I can't make you drink it! One verse that is mentioned in the video is Jesus saying, Luke 21:36 (WEB): (36) Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may...
  20. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    I recommend that you watch this video - 3 Undeniable Reasons the Rapture is Pre-Trib. Then you will see that your statements are wrong. 1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 (WEB): (9) For God didn’t appoint us to wrath, but to the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, (10) who died for us...