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@Lambano Come to think of it, it was trust (and the activity of Grace through it) that conquered those fearful thoughts (and those fearful thoughts had always precipitated a fall into the sin)... and it's probably going to work the same with my fearful thoughts of going to hell, or sinning (eg...

I recognized that in the past, and use "Monergist" and "Synergist" now. Right, compatibilism. That has to be worked out though bc He sent angels to see if the outcry against Sodom was true. He had to learn. So, "predestination" (whatever it is) doesn't affect believers directly ? Except...

Yeah, and I don't detect that pride in John. But I mean REALLY set me free--I used to fear falling into it, but once He delivered me, I don't even have a single THOUGHT of it! Lol

I gotta go-ta sleep! I'll regret it if I deny sleep biology thinking I'm spiritual. LOL

God set me free from porn more than a decade ago. Do you know how? Only by trust. No struggle. The fiery darts were extinguished by grace through faith. I think the more we trust God, the more He works in us. What do we "trust"? I'm satisfied, having seen the power in my life, with trusting John.

I've heard of that. Nevertheless, anyone who has met Christ knows their life was dramatically changed. They found that missing part of life they always thought had to exist.

You know it's valid if you know God, because knowing God is eternal life--and He changes your life, cleans your sin. What became of the ones who had invalid faith? 1. John 6, they saw the signs and tried to make Christ King by force--they didn't really believe in Christ, but thought Christ...

Yeah, I know that one, but, in his Gospel, he only provides examples of people who had invalid faith, never actual children of God, who fall away! "If they were of us they would have remained with us"! Why? "I will not lose one" "No one can snatch them out of My hand".

@Lambano Only bc his writings seem to be so different. There are different reasons that could explain that. One, less controversial, would be that he merely emphasizes different things than others. Example: He says "Neither this man nor his parents sinned so that he was born blind, but he was...

I'm asking people who do not accept the conventional meaning of "predestined" (ie, God chose it, made it happen) to share their definition for it. It seems you reject the conventional meaning. What do you think it means instead?

Yup, but I'm playing a game of not reconciling John with the rest of Scripture right now--"What if all I had to go on was John's writings--his Gospel, his Epistles, his Revelation--what would I believe?" I'm seeing things from a different perspective for the moment, to see if it bears good fruit...

I do not deny we will be repaid according to our works, but I think what I'm saying is that trusting God goes ahead of all of our decisions, and empowers us to make the right ones, as Christ says, "Sanctify them in the truth. Thy Word is truth." "You are clean through the Word I've spoken to...

@Lambano Literally, God had to put me through that to get me to believe the truth, because it was torment--He turned the heat up to FORCE me to accept and confess the truth. LOL!

...but if Christ is the Word He teaches, and if He teaches you were always with Him "from the beginning", and He will not lose one, and no one can snatch you out of His hand... wouldn't trusting Christ mean trusting those things? IF He meant those things? lol

So, in your understanding, "predestination" is the conventional meaning of it? And does it give you peace?

1. Yeah, except Jesus says we know how to identify those guys: a bad tree bears bad fruit, and those false prophets were living in immorality, hatred, and all kinds of sin, including boasting (what other reason was there for them to be performing miracles if not for Christ?). 2. I do not know...

Well, if you know God, that's eternal life, and you had to be really one of His sheep to get to that point, and it sounds like John is saying that's a permanent thing--not only forward through time, but even back at the beginning of time, you have, in some sense, always been Christ's, and you...

Is that "predestination" related?

OK I am trying out this "trust" thing. Jesus says, "You were with from the beginning", "In the beginning was the Word..." and "No one can snatch them out of My hand"--dollars to donuts, trust will bear more fruit.

I would be apt to believe this (and there is a lot more substance I could add to the argument), excepting for the fact that it says those who are born of God are not born of the will of man... unless you argue that in order to become a child of God you have to put your will aside and cooperate...