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  1. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    Not if the dialogue is a denial of plain texts. Isaiah PLAINLY asks and answers the question, "Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire/everlasting burnings?" with the incontrovertible truth, "He that walketh uprightly..." No amount of twisting can wriggling frees us from the...
  2. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    Sorry, fact. Let's not confuse literal with spiritual. No Jew literally dwelt in devouring fire during the siege of Jerusalem - the passage speaks of spiritual Zion, the church, and the hypocrites surprised at the coming of our Lord in great glory and fiery retribution. At that time, only the...
  3. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    To this, I answer: The extent of our motives is twofold: 1) To exonerate the character of God from Satan's accusation that He intends to eternally torment the wicked which ascribes to Him a degree of sadistic cruelty fit only for the one authoring the accusation. 2) Present God as a loving...
  4. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    Don't think so. OK, stop right there, for you've left the truth of Scripture and meandered into the realm of SUBJECTIVITY. The passage asks the question and then plainly answers it - there's no need to appeal to other texts for an antithesis to the already plainly answered question: "Who among...
  5. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    Good idea, friend. Too often, trends and sensationalism dictate what is and is not doctrine, instead of plain Biblical reasoning.
  6. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    1 Thessalonians 4:14 KJV does NOT teach that at the Second Coming, God will "bring with Him" the saints who've died and gone to heaven back down to Earth to take part of some ridiculous celestial fashion show as these "disembodied souls" dress up in new, immortal flesh and bone bodies, as the...
  7. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    Isaiah plainly says it's the RIGHTEOUS who will dwell in everlasting fire, not the wicked. Stick that in your fire and brimstone pipe and smoke it ;)
  8. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    "Aionios" means "duration: either undefined BUT NOT ENDLESS or undefined because endless". If the wages of sin is "eternal torment", the only way Jesus could take our place and pay our penalty for us is that HE BE ETERNALLY TORMENTED. The goal and aim of the scholar is to constantly seek to...
  9. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    No amount of theological philosophizing can establish the doctrine of eternal torment. Rather, accept the truth that man is mortal, and comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the body and the breath of life AS GENESIS 2:7 KJV SO PLAINLY TELLS YOU and that at death, the breath...
  10. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    Isaiah 33:14-5 KJV: [14] Who among us shall dwell with the DEVOURING FIRE? Who among us shall dwell with EVERLASTING BURNINGS? (The wicked? NO!) [15] He that walketh UPRIGHTLY, and speaketh UPRIGHTLY; he that DESPISETH the gain of oppressions, that SHAKETH his hands from holding of bribes...
  11. Phoneman777

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    What is the word in the Critical Text versus the word in the Textus Receptus?
  12. Phoneman777

    Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

    Future in Paul's day, past in our day. They are not the same. The "man of sin" and "Satan" are spoken of separately, with the one coming "after the working" of the other. When Jesus comes in the clouds, the "man of sin" papacy shall be consumed "with the brightness of His coming". Satan...
  13. Phoneman777

    Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

    2 Thessalonians 2 mentions "Satan" and "man of sin" separately - consequently, they are not the same thing. The one comes "after the working" of the other in verse 9. That's why the Protestant Reformers taught the "man of sin' was the papacy, the Roman Empire was the "restrainer" preventing the...
  14. Phoneman777

    Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

    The ECFs/Reformers all saw Daniel's Little Horn, Paul's Man of Sin, and John's Beast as one in the same: Antichrist. So, no way Daniel can be done because the Man of Sin and Beast of Revelation ain't done. Do you agree the First Four Feasts Day "types" had to do with Christ's First Coming? He...
  15. Phoneman777

    Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

    Remember when the pure church was overrun with paganism; when idolatrous pagan statues were dragged into the church; when the people were told to pray to the dead for intercession; when pagan festivals like Easter and Christmas were dragged into the church, when sun worship, cleverly disguised...
  16. Phoneman777

    Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

    See, that's not possible. How can Satan and the Antichrist be one in the same when in Revelation, the "Dragon" is Satan and the "Beast" is the Antichrist? The "Dragon" is Satan and his associated demonic occult systems and secret societies The "Beast" is the Antichrist system that arose among...
  17. Phoneman777

    Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

    Always believed the Ten Toes/Ten Horns are representative of the barbarian nations which arose from the ashes of the Roman Empire and evolved into Europe. Horns, toes, beasts are kingdoms, not religious ideologies (save the Little Horn which is a "diverse" religious/state kingdom where religion...
  18. Phoneman777

    Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

    I was responding to what you said about the ECFs having a common belief with modern Futurists about the Ten Horns. The ECFs believed they would follow directly after the 4th kingdom, but modern Futurists say this "ten nation confederacy" is still future. While I also believe it's a dual...
  19. Phoneman777

    Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

    Here is an excerpt from a Futurist interpretation I found at Bible.org: "The endless explanation of critical scholars attempting to find these ten kings in the history of the Grecian Empire or to find them later in Rome, by their very disagreement among themselves demonstrate the impossibility...