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Continued from above... On Israel and salvation (again)... Not the physical nation-state of Israel. God's Israel. In which ethnicity has no bearing and numbering far, far, far more than just the citizens of the physical nation-state of Israel, than just ethnic Jews. See above. I know...

I think this is the last one... hooray! <smile> Wait... no... <chuckles> On martyrs, the tribulation (again), Daniel... <chuckles> That's not what I said... I wasn't talking about martyrs... except in the sense that we are all martyrs in the sense that Jesus spoke of His true followers in...

Continued from above; page... oh, I've lost count now... <smile> On salvation, and Paul, and the tribulation (again), and Romans and Ephesians, and... <smile> It's not about "National Israel." But I do agree that not all of Israel, as Paul means it in Romans 11:26 ~ which consists of all...

Page 4... <chuckles> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, boy, Revelation 20... all these conversations go here at some point... <chuckles> He is. Jesus said so, in Matthew 12... "if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.... how can someone enter a strong...

Part 3... <chuckles>... Regarding Arminianism and Calvinism... Why? Because you're Methodist? Yes, John Wesley embraced Arminian doctrines. Even I, as a Calvinist, would not say Arminius or Wesley were ~ or anyone who believes what they did regarding soteriology is ~ a "bad Christian," or...

Continued from above... Regarding "probation"... Fair enough. But we have, by God's grace, received His mercy and compassion and are thus justified ~ by Him, of course ~ and thus in Christ, so we are not on any kind of "probation." <smile> As Paul says in Romans 8: "There is therefore now...

You know, it's a big, big subject, but yes, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons, with three distinct functions. At the same time, though, They are of one substance, One in each other, and together the one true God. Right... You is... <smile> You are...

Hmmm, well, think about what Paul has said about Israel, even in Romans, leading up to this, particularly regarding who is really a true Jew of God and why: ...in Romans 2:28-29... "no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical... a Jew is one inwardly...

I didn't say we were, I said we might be, that it might have already begun. Right, we've discussed "probation" quite enough. We agree on it. But you know, just concerning words and whether they're actually in the Bible or not, the word 'trinity' never appears... is never used, either, but it...

Right, someone else did above, not me, except to pick up on something that other poster had said. And like I said, I don't think that's particularly an SDA concept. And as I said above, this period of tribulation that we are in is not a "probation," as if God is waiting to see whether we will...

I don't think it's particularly an SDA concept... It is a biblical concept, but, as is the case with so many things discussed on this board, very misunderstood by many, often by understanding it in the wrong sense rather than the right one. Many understand it in the sense of the exercise of...

Hmm, well it is layered, as much of prophecy throughout the Bible is. But I'm not sure we... understand that in the same way. <smile> I think probably not, but maybe... <smile> Sure, but not really to just those particular churches. In the same way as, oh, when Jesus spoke to His...

1stCenturyLady, regarding Revelation 12 ~ specifically verses 13-17, this is what we should "see," along with John: Having failed to destroy Christ (Revelation 12:4-5), the Dragon (Satan, of course) tries to destroy the people of Christ. He uses his mouth, representing his deceit (Revelation...

Neither God nor Jesus ~ Who says, "in this world you will have tribulation" and "lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age" ~ ever promises to remove Christians from trouble, or tribulation, or trial, but to walk with them... us... through it, to deliver them/us. Over and over again...

Can fire burn itself...? <chuckle> Right, of course not, but nothing in all of creation is going to literally burn up, either. <smile> I think of the "fire," 1stCenturyLady ~ and I say we all should ~ in the sense of God purifying all of creation... making it new... as He says in Revelation...

Ah, wellllllll.... yes, buuuuuuuut.... <smile> Our God is a consuming fire. Grace and peace to you.

<chuckles> Yes, of course. When Jesus returns... if I am not still alive when He comes. Well that depends on what you mean by "destroy" ...in what sense you understand that "destruction"... <smile> In the sense I think you mean it, though, no. <smile> Grace and peace to you 1CL.

There is no "rapture," and nothing will be destroyed in the sense of wiping it from existence, but rather in the sense of complete defeat and ruination. But after the final judgment, there will be... a number of people... who... depart from this earth. And they will experience a death, and be...

I mean yeah, that's what you do... dismiss acknowledgment and basic logic ~ which you can't with any credibility actually do, by the way ~ just because it says both to you and about you what you don't want it to say. Just a senseless defense mechanism and some kind of attempt to save face. But...

No, I acknowledge word for word what you said, so your stated belief(s), thereby acknowledging perfectly what you do believe ~ because you stated it yourself, verbatim. And then I explicitly acknowledge what you don't believe by saying it is only an unintended but unavoidable implication of...