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  1. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    I do understand the difference between Israel and Judah. There is also a huge difference between them and the church. Could you give me at least one of the 160 verses that say the church is the 10 Northern tribes? I see where God created a new creature composed of both Jew and Gentile (Gal...
  2. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    You can't possibly be reading what I write. I said a rising is not a resurrection. That is absolutely true. Look up the two words in a Greek concordance. Now you may not think it significant that God uses words in a precise way, but that does not change the fact that every word is incredibly...
  3. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    Part of the doctrine in verse 16 requires that we know to whom God is speaking and when He spoke it. If we get that wrong we end up with wrong doctrine. Lev 1:2, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your...
  4. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    Scholarly research will bear out the truth of what I said. I already did it. It's not that difficult. When Paul told the Bereans about the scriptures, they did the research to see if what he said was true or not. The key is that Paul spoke and the Bereans did the research. Paul already knew...
  5. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    Not impossible for sure! :) As you said, we can learn things from the Gospel despite the fact they are not written to us (Rom 15:4). But being for our learning does not necessarily mean everything there is meant to be our guide in faith and practice. There is a world of difference between our...
  6. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    Not sure how you got to here: from here:
  7. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    No, not all the seven churches did exist when John wrote. Revelation was rejected for some time precisely because many realized that several of the churches mentioned in Revelation didn't exist at that time. Of course those guys never considered that they would exist in the future, namely when...
  8. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    The only scholarly support I have are in the verses themselves. 1 Thess 4:14-18, 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto...
  9. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    Well, at least we agree with #8. Interesting too that #8 is one where we will no longer have doctrinal differences. We'll see what's what then. Too bad we can't make bets as to who was right and who was wrong about things when we were down here. Lot's of folks would be quite wealthy! :)
  10. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    John 5:21-22, 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, What does this have to do with the order of events in the end times? How does it say...
  11. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    Have you ever noticed that 1 Thessalonians 4 doesn't say Jesus comes down to earth? I says we will meet him in the air. Is that significant? I think it is. I think it is highly significant. You asked if Thessalonians 4 doesn't talk about a resurrection. You said yes. My Bible says Christians...
  12. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    And you say that without mentioning that I said I too have a thick skull? Cherry picking to make me out as bad as you can. I thought we cleared that up. Come on guy, new information ought to clarify the past. Maybe we run in different circles, but I'm not even close to unique in my views. I...
  13. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    OK. I'll get more specific. I have said that the Gentiles are tangentially involved with Israel, so that would explain John 3:16. However, that doesn't change the fact that Jesus said he come only for Israel and that he sent the Apostles out with precise instructions to go only to Israel. What...
  14. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    Usually that phrase in a discussion such as ours means one person has no idea how to get through other's thick skull. Think outside the box and try not to think the worst of someone. OK, but just to be clear, that's not you tucking your tail between your legs and running away? I'm just...
  15. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    You can't get past the idea that the Gospels were written to and about Israel and not the Christian church? How does the church being caught up into the air relate to the great white throne? Are we caught up and then stand before standing in front of the throne? That wouldn't make any sense...
  16. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    Are you kidding me? Have you seen how many rebuttals I've written? Is that your idea of tucking my tail between my legs and running away? What would you have me do? Should I just say, "Oh, you are 100% right and I'm 100% wrong?" Why don't you do that? You didn't say that. I did. If anyone just...
  17. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    One of the biggest errors inserted into the scriptures is the page in from of Matthew with big red letters proclaiming, "The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ." Matt 10:5-6, 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and...
  18. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    Not used to having my view challenged? How can you tell? As a 40 year non-Trinitarian I'm more than used to challenges and how to handle them. Look at my picture. I'm still smiling. Are you exhibiting the correct way to answer to my challenges? If so, what's the difference? Who here is more...
  19. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    I give up. You so mangle my words as to make the message unintelligible. And don't try to tell me it's because I don't know how to communicate. The real problem is your pride. Or are you just trying to rattle me? Whatever. You figure it out. I'm sure you have all the answers. :)
  20. Rich R

    22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

    I've never said anything about ethnicity. You've brought it up a few times now, but I don't even know what you're talking about. Where did I deny the church is composed of both Jew and Gentile? I've actually said the church is composed of both Jew and Gentile several times now. I even quoted a...