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  1. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    The entire bible is Christ's doctrine. Besides that, Revelation 20 in no way contradicts Daniel 12 or any of the other resurrection passages. Revelation 20 adds one detail about the resurrection that the other passages don't and that's the thousand years. The thousand years do not contradict...
  2. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    Those verses fit you to a T. Your belief about the resurrection is exactly the same as theirs, and that belief is why they erred when they said "the resurrection is past already". They thought it meant dead bodies rising, so when they saw bodies come out of the ground and stand to their feet at...
  3. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    I don't think either of us is going to move the other on this topic, so we'll leave it there. Good discussion.
  4. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    So what is John 5:25 talking about, if it is not the resurrection? Who are the dead in that verse that were hearing his voice at that exact time?
  5. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    It clearly says “now is” in John 5:25 so I don’t understand your argument on this. Are you saying “now is” doesn’t mean right then? Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
  6. I

    Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

    This functions like an inside joke — those on the inside grasp the meaning immediately, while those outside it miss the point entirely.
  7. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Jesus says the hour NOW IS, right then, when dead people are hearing his voice and coming to life. Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for...
  8. I

    Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

    John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
  9. I

    Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

    Do you think when Abraham saw the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus he just kept that to himself?
  10. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    Daniel's subject is The Resurrection — the event in which ALL who sleep in the dust are raised and judged, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt. That is the thing being spoken of. But notice what Daniel actually says. He does not say ALL who sleep in the dust awake. He says...
  11. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    "If man is not born again when they believe why does John tell us we must be born again to both know and enter the Kingdom of God? " Because it's true. The kingdom of heaven is Heavenly Jerusalem, not heaven where God is. It's the place where all believers should be living right now but they...
  12. I

    Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

    Yes. And I'll let Paul give the details. Romans 4:6-8 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will...
  13. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    We're in agreement on two resurrection groups — the just, the unjust. Where we disagree is what "the first resurrection" means. You take it as ordinal — slot one in a numbered sequence, with a second one following later. My argument is that it's a name. "The first resurrection" is a title for...
  14. I

    Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

    That would be these verses? 1 Peter 3:19-20 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
  15. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    EXACTLY! Unless a person is born again of what? The incorruptible seed - the incorruptible word of God. A brand new believer literally knows nothing about the bible. No need to debate this one either. 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of...
  16. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    No offense and no disrespect intended but I don't like arguing back and forth on issues that we will never even come close to agreeing on.
  17. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    Wrong on both counts. A believer is not born again when he believes. I've given my piece on this, you don't agree and that's fine. We can go back and forth forever on this and accomplish nothing. There will be other topics for us to discuss but not this one.
  18. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    I'm not going to argue over it. You are free to believe whatever you want.
  19. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    You just admitted there is no time gap in Daniel 12 by saying "Daniel like other passages does not mention the time gap". And you think I'm bending Daniel 12? You said yourself there is no time gap in Daniel 12.
  20. I

    MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

    A believer is resurrected as soon as he believes (that is the resurrection) and will be translated into a glorified body whenever it's time for the believer to leave this world and go to heaven.
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