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@marks I think that the reason I have not been training myself on the OSAS issue, is that I no longer agree about when a person is saved as in evangelicalism. I say that a person is saved when he is delivered from sin, not positionally but actually. Then he is walking in the Spirit but he can...

Donald Trump = controlled opposition.

The thing is, I became Christian in the first place because I value truth. And that has never changed. Amen to that! Me too. marks, think about it, which doctrine is more likely to be a demonic one: that you are saved whatever you do afterwards, or that obedience is necessary or you are in...

His death opened the entrance into paradise again for man to eat of the tree of life there again.

Paradise is what was lost.

10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still...

There were only two types of trees for food in Eden not four. Life or death (spiritual) The saved and the not saved. @Episkopos John, who else has taught this or are you the first one after 2,000 to know it? Two or three witnesses required.

This speaks of a "thing" to come, not a person, not Jesus, as some suppose. (Johann) The clue to what the perfect is I believe found here: 1 Cor 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial passes away. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child...

Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” 14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15...

Thanks for providing the opportunity for me to look in depth at this portion of scripture. I have somehow missed it until now. As a Calvinist in the past, I was OSAS, of course, but can't remember using these verses. Perhaps I did, but now I think there is more to them than is found in the...

@marks would you mind saying what salvation is - what are we saved from, from our side thanks.

Kept by the power of God unto salvation is talking about those who are aiming for salvation, not in it yet, and speaks of the wonderful way that the Lord works as we are going through the terrible trials in the wilderness, whereby we are indeed at risk of losing our faith as the fires of hell...

Just remembered why it is called divine. The whole service is to bring participants to repentance, and to prepare them for the acceptance of the Holy Spirit to baptize them.

Lets get this straight @marks, you say that man can choose whether to accept Christ or not, but once he has, he is unable to turn away and disbelieve in God again. So he loses his free will when he is saved?

Indeed He does chasten but only if we continue with Him. If we no longer will it then we are no longer sons. He took no action at all with the Prodigal. Only a welcome back. How do you feel marks about the descendants of the apostles disciples fighting against the doctrine of pagans which...

I am only interested in the spirituality that was taught in the very early times of the church ie entire sanctification. Bad practices came in early. Sorry you are not going to catch me out and only show your heart in trying to do so.

Against my will? Or let me go like the Prodigal Son and make my own decision to return or not. The early Christians were all free will.

No idea. I don't have anything to do with them. They are nearer to true Christianity though. Why don't you pull Protestantism to bits instead? It's more appropriate here.

John you are talking rubbish. No offence but they use the same liturgy that they have always used since very early days and nearly all of it is scripture. Many have converted to them because of this. Now whether they are genuine believers to be found amongst them today is beyond the point...

John are you awake yet? It says divine liturgy. Basil was a saint yes. Wanting a bit of revenge eh.