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In a debate it's up to YOU to defend what you're saying. It's not up to ME to do the work for you. You might want to check out, for example, @Dave Mac 's post no. 573. He made a statement and backed it up with scripture. THIS is how it's done. YOU must provide support for your statements...

Whether or not Adam was saved is a good topic. He certainly was saved in the beginning. Was he saved after the fall? Eve said the Lord gave her a child, so some type of relationship was present. Also, they raised Cain and Abel to worship God. Just some thoughts.

There have been bad Popes throughout history, but the CC has held together .... till now. I agree with you re the feelings of Pope Francis. He split the CC in half and I'm not sure this one is any better from the little I've heard him speak. The problem goes way beyond the Latin Mass, but this...

A lot here... must leave for a while. later.

Hi H, I also agree with what @Behold posted in no. 183... because we ORIGINALLY had a relationship with God but lost it through Adam. But yes, reconciliation means what you've stated. It's MORE than just forgiving someone because they've wronged you. It means to RESTART a relationship with them...

Behold, I don't think the Mary Cult should be included in your list. Those that venerate Mary also know about Jesus and worship HIM. Otherwise, they are not following the doctrine/teaching of the CC. I DO agree that too much emphasis is put on Mary.... but, OTOH, we don't have ANY emphasis on...

So you're saying PHYSICAL BIRTH is the FIRST birth? I thought this is what you had said....and I agree. I'm trying to understand what the other member believes and I believe it's that the WATER is the Word of God and I do not agree with that...although some scholars do agree.

Not to change the topic.....but have you noticed that there is no fighting in the CC? It seems to be we Protestants that cannot agree on some topics that seem to be important. For example: The NT does teach that baptism washes away sin... is for the forgiveness of sin.... and this was believed...

You also do not post scripture properly, but because it's my thread and I'm very interested, I DID look up your verses (which should have been posted)... Indeed some do suggest that the WATER is the word of God. Also, the LIVING WATER, as you've also posted. So YOU MUST BE BORN OF WATER AND...

Interesting. The early church taught very simple teachings. One had to believe in Jesus as being God and as having risen. They then taught that a person had to be baptized and had to obey God. So, I'd say that, yes, it's the reconciliation that saves us,,,but YOU'RE saying that it's not. ...

Your understanding is reasonable. Scholars/Theologians are not in agreement on John 3:5 Thanks!

@VictoryinJesus agrees with you in post no. 146.

The water of the flood saved only a few. Jesus said only a few will be saved because the gate is narrow. But they were saved THROUGH the water; BY the water....Those on land perished. The hope in being saved by the water brings to mind that there was always a remnant in Israel after the...

Hi Amigo You know that I know that the CC teaches doctrine that cannot be found in scripture. That's why I say that, although I know their doctrine, I am not here to protect that church or any church. I'm sorry to say that I've become non-denominational after years of studying the bible. I can...

You must become perfect first for what? Doesn't the NT teach that only Jesus is perfect? I'm not going to argue this...if you believe a person could be perfect....so be it. Happily, the early church faced this very problem and realized that man was always going to sin. Thus, John gives us a...

OK But what do YOU believe it means?? tomorrow...

@Kokyu Hi K,,, you don't have to reply to this.. There's plenty up above. But I just found it when closing down...I thought I had lost it. Since I took the time to write it, I just thought I'd send it along. 'night. Perhaps you neglected to read John 15 from the beginning. Here it is...

Am I not right? WHAT, according to you, did Jesus preach/teach for 3.5 years?? Did He not teach HOW we are to be members of the Kingdom of God (here on earth)? (which would get us to heaven too). Did he not teach us HOW to behave? The Beatitudes. (Matthew 5) You could certainly add to the...

This makes sense to me and will probably be my end belief. Nicodemus even asked how he could go back into his mother's womb. Jesus did not correct him but doubled down after telling N he must be born again. Thanks! John 3:3-6 3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless...

Hi Victory... sorry for delay - was away a few days. You posted some deep thoughts. Going to leave this for tomorrow morning...too late here. Soon...