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Keep reading my post! The above is obvious. So we were slaves to satan..kidnapped. So why is God getting paid? Why not Satan? Hope you read my entire post.

You have two great threads going on at the same time. Wish you'd slow down so I could get my 2 cents in.... Later.

Just thinking.... God laid the judgement of Adam on mankind. OK. But it was satan that "kidnapped" man and has had him under his thumb from that time...till Jesus. @Enoch111 says God doesn't owe anybody anything... But isn't the whole idea to REDEEM us from satan's bondage? The one that...

Is there a conflict in your last paragraph?

But what were we bought back FROM? I need to get my notes... I'm not really going to argue this since even theologians are divided on the understanding...But this will help...if you want to comment... I find that no view on the atonement is wrong...Every view has some aspect of...

LOL What? You won't be happy till I'm afraid of God? I'm afraid of satan...I understand the power he has...he's the Prince of the Air. IOW, he's the prince of the earth and we're on HIS territory. Right about satan. He came before man and he CHOSE to abandon God. So he had free will. But free...

I agree that God created us with free will. This free will He gave us is not the cause of evil...not even in an indirect way. Evil existed BEFORE man was given a choice. Regarding fear of God: I have nothing further to say. I'm not here to argue about biblical matters UNLESS they have to do...

Hmmm. If I remember right,,, there's mixed idealogy about this. We were under bondage to satan... some believe the ransom was paid to satan. Do you have any knowledge of this? If not, I could go thru my notes --- I'm pretty sure.

Rev. 20:4 made me think of all the Christians that have been beheaded. Things don't change much...

Oh agreed. My friends daughter,,,way back when... had her upper ear pierced for an earring. It was in style back then. She made her hair grow first so her father wouldn't notice! This worked for a couple of years and then she was about 18/19 and she just told him. Could you imagine?

I agree with the first paragraph. How about this for the 2nd?: If a parent needs to go hold some kids' hand.... don't you think that kid is too young for ink?

Agreed. Times sure have changed. Remember when SOME PARENTS were still holding out -- refusing to get their child one of these new phones? Seems like yesterday. Now the parents buy them as a gift. How the world has changed....

Know anybody that would like to buy some of them? Make a list. Oh. And the CC happens to be the church that most helps the needy. You could check out the statistics...this is correct.

Gosh. How far back do you want to go? How many believed what Augustine wrote? He had his own thoughts...most of which I don't even agree with. Plus, which part of his life are we talking about? The beginning, the middle, the end. His views changed so much it's difficult to keep up. He was very...

Well, it was a long time ago. And his first job was as a model. Back to topic....

JBF,,, I don't ignore any scripture. I exegete any verse that's given to me with no problem. In the O.T. God was feared. Did you know that they had no concept of satan? They attributed everything that happened to God. There are some places in the O.T. that state that God made evil. Like, for...

I don't think so. We're still discussing cigarettes.

I found him. But he's a cop now... the Marlboro man - Bing images