“I will shew thee my faith by my works.“

[bbyrd009]

Read your Bible. In it you will find that there were many churches.

yes, or you may just as easily find One Church, at ______, that is being referred to i guess

As for the blood their is no way to salvation that is not bought by faith in Jesus' blood.

yes, under the law almost everything requires blood, huh
Christians are so obsessed with blood lol, hmm

what does "bought by faith in Jesus' blood" even mean, really, HR. Seems you are pretty much committed to an Angry God Who needed to be appeased there, wadr, even if the characterization maybe makes you uncomfortable?

 

[H. Richard]

yes, or you may just as easily find One Church, at ______, that is being referred to i guess
yes, under the law almost everything requires blood, huh
Christians are so obsessed with blood lol, hmm

what does "bought by faith in Jesus' blood" even mean, really, HR. Seems you are pretty much committed to an Angry God Who needed to be appeased there, wadr, even if the characterization maybe makes you uncomfortable?

***

I am not uncomfortable. In fact I am most comfortable in the fact that God loves me so much He sent His Son into the world to give me peace with Him by making me His child.

 

[H. Richard]

Well, perhaps you should consider these things.

Stranger

***

LOL, and you don't have too, right? I get a laugh out of those who think they are God's gift to men. But the truth is that in your replies on this form it is your way or the highway.

As for your attitude that you want people to see the short comings in the position I am presenting" that is just fine. However, I don't think I would have said that to another person. The way you have expressed it is that I am the one that has short comings and yet I have pointed out what I see as "short comings" of the orthodox view of James 2. Your statement "We have all demonstrated what James is saying and you have not" is a little self-grandiose isn't it? All you have done is express an opinion just as I have. Your opinion does not make it a fact. Nor do I see that others have given you the right to express their views.

A forum is supposed to be a place where a person can express their beliefs without the fear that someone will want to wreck havoc on them for having them. I have been on forums for well over 15-years and people have said all kinds of things about me. I do not feel put out by it. They said those same things to, and about, Jesus. However, when some one gets too aggressive I make the follow comments to them and add their name to my "do not respond to this person under any circumstances" list.

Attitudes:

Some wish to be religious policemen on the forums. They think that they know the truth in the scriptures, feel that others do not, and that the forum must be protected from those that do not believe as they do. When they enter into a discussion it is not to "share" what they believe but to "impose" what they believe on others or to destroy what another believes. This is a very serious attitude problem.

What killed Jesus, Stephen, Paul and Peter? "The attitudes of people did!

It is the same attitude problem that made the Pharisees charge (accuse) Jesus of being wrong and wanting to have Him killed. It is the same attitude problem that made the Pharisees charge (accuse) Paul of being wrong and wanting to kill him. It is the same attitude problem that made the Pharisees charge (accuse) Stephen of being wrong and killing him. It is the same attitude problem that made the RCC charge (accuse) others of heresy and have them burned at the stake. It is the same attitude problem that made Calvin have those of the RCC burned at the stake. It is the same attitude problem that made the religious people in Salem hang those they thought were witches. It is the same attitude problem that causes Muslims to kill others.

This SAME attitude problem is found on forums in some of the posters. If a person dares to give an opinion that is not the same as theirs, then attack them, call them names, make fun of them, and above all else try to make yourself look superior to them by ridiculing them. It is an attitude that makes people rail against others, to denigrate and character assassinate another. It comes from insecurity and an evil heart that does not know what love is. The Children of God will not do it.

Oh, by the way, if the shoe fits wear it.

Having the wrong attitude towards others has killed many in the name of religion. It will also get your name added to my "do not respond list."

H Richard

 

[bbyrd009]

***

I am not uncomfortable. In fact I am most comfortable in the fact that God loves me so much He sent His Son into the world to give me peace with Him by making me His child.

ok, but once again note how you are like prettying up the language in order to avoid a basic point, HR?
Which indicates that you are not comfortable, whether you choose to admit it right now or not, wadr. And you are manifesting this "uncomfortable" in other ways, other avoidings, too, see, leaning on this broken straw "the work is to believe" verse; after faith is turned into belief in English of course.
"Little children, do not be deceived" ok?

Bc either a Capricious and Offended God needed Jesus to die in order for you to be acceptable to Him, or not.

 

[Stranger]

***

LOL, and you don't have too, right? I get a laugh out of those who think they are God's gift to men. But the truth is that in your replies on this form it is your way or the highway.

As for your attitude that you want people to see the short comings in the position I am presenting" that is just fine. However, I don't think I would have said that to another person. The way you have expressed it is that I am the one that has short comings and yet I have pointed out what I see as "short comings" of the orthodox view of James 2. Your statement "We have all demonstrated what James is saying and you have not" is a little self-grandiose isn't it? All you have done is express an opinion just as I have. Your opinion does not make it a fact. Nor do I see that others have given you the right to express their views.

A forum is supposed to be a place where a person can express their beliefs without the fear that someone will want to wreck havoc on them for having them. I have been on forums for well over 15-years and people have said all kinds of things about me. I do not feel put out by it. They said those same things to, and about, Jesus. However, when some one gets too aggressive I make the follow comments to them and add their name to my "do not respond to this person under any circumstances" list.

Attitudes:

Some wish to be religious policemen on the forums. They think that they know the truth in the scriptures, feel that others do not, and that the forum must be protected from those that do not believe as they do. When they enter into a discussion it is not to "share" what they believe but to "impose" what they believe on others or to destroy what another believes. This is a very serious attitude problem.

What killed Jesus, Stephen, Paul and Peter? "The attitudes of people did!

It is the same attitude problem that made the Pharisees charge (accuse) Jesus of being wrong and wanting to have Him killed. It is the same attitude problem that made the Pharisees charge (accuse) Paul of being wrong and wanting to kill him. It is the same attitude problem that made the Pharisees charge (accuse) Stephen of being wrong and killing him. It is the same attitude problem that made the RCC charge (accuse) others of heresy and have them burned at the stake. It is the same attitude problem that made Calvin have those of the RCC burned at the stake. It is the same attitude problem that made the religious people in Salem hang those they thought were witches. It is the same attitude problem that causes Muslims to kill others.

This SAME attitude problem is found on forums in some of the posters. If a person dares to give an opinion that is not the same as theirs, then attack them, call them names, make fun of them, and above all else try to make yourself look superior to them by ridiculing them. It is an attitude that makes people rail against others, to denigrate and character assassinate another. It comes from insecurity and an evil heart that does not know what love is. The Children of God will not do it.

Oh, by the way, if the shoe fits wear it.

Having the wrong attitude towards others has killed many in the name of religion. It will also get your name added to my "do not respond list."

H Richard

Whether you respond to me or not is immaterial to me.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Having the wrong attitude towards others has killed many in the name of religion.

imagine how God feels after you have put Him in this box of requiring a sacrifice from Someone else for your sins, in direct violation of Scripture HR

i hope you consider some of the posts that you cannot engage with right now for yourself, ok HR? Bc personally idc what you believe, pretty sure God does not either, but you prolly will

 

[H. Richard]

imagine how God feels after you have put Him in this box of requiring a sacrifice from Someone else for your sins, in direct violation of Scripture HR

i hope you consider some of the posts that you cannot engage with right now for yourself, ok HR? Bc personally idc what you believe, pretty sure God does not either, but you prolly will

***
You are doing this;

Heb 10:28-29
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
NKJV

 

[bbyrd009]

***
You are doing this;

Heb 10:28-29
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
NKJV

so you're not uncomfortable, yet you are deflecting again HR, so thank you, and have a good weekend

"all you have to do is believe, you don't have to pay attention to James or any other verse that supports faith in action," and
"'when we all get to heaven' we'll see who is trampling Christ underfoot" i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

i mean we can talk about me if you want to ignore and deflect from the point HR, but you should at least pick something you can support a little better imo, i'd go for the state of my heart prolly, but hopefully you can see that "trampling Christ underfoot" is not going to work out well for you either?

 

[Kristen Davis]

James 2:17-18
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

There are multiple threads on works. This thread is not to debate “I will shew thee my faith by my works.” But to show what others may believe are the “works” that show their faith.

Do you have “works” you believe reveal your faith? What are those works? How have your demonstrated faith in the Son of God? How can others see your faith? Is it mere words that you have put your faith in the Son of God?

Faith without works is dead just like the body without the spirit is dead.

 

[Kristen Davis]

James 2:17-18
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

There are multiple threads on works. This thread is not to debate “I will shew thee my faith by my works.” But to show what others may believe are the “works” that show their faith.

Do you have “works” you believe reveal your faith? What are those works? How have your demonstrated faith in the Son of God? How can others see your faith? Is it mere words that you have put your faith in the Son of God?

Showing work by faith helps to prove that your work is not for nothing. Don't loose everything you have worked hard for because you will receive a reward in the end.

 

[Episkopos]

***

And your refusing to acknowledge that James and Paul were teaching two different gospels is the work of Satan. The religious place man's works as the final necessity to gain salvation. That means that faith in what Jesus did on the cross is not enough to save a person. The religious want the saying in James to divert faith in Jesus' blood to faith in a person's ability to save themselves by their works.

The truth is that the religious want to get people to think that their faith in Jesus' work is not enough. They have to go in by religious works and they lose the work of God on the cross.

I have never said that the book of James was not inspired by God. That is the lie you want to foster about me. I have said, over and over again that the book was not written to the Gentile church and James 1:1 says so. But you and the religious still want to add words to what God has written by saying it is for use in the gospel of grace. James said a person has to have works, Paul said a person only has to have faith in what God did on the cross. Which idea comes from Satan.

Jesus won over Satan when He paid for all the sins of the world because Satan could not get people condemned because of their sins. So Satan has put out his teaching that a person has to stop sinning in the flesh and do good works to be saved. The choice for mankind today is; are they going to believe Satan or God's message of grace sent by Paul. The religious refuse grace when they add works to it.

You defend James writing and try to make Paul's message the same. The religious blend the message of law into the message of grace and have come up with a blended gospel that will send many to hell. Your statement ""your opinion is satanic"" is okay with me since I know the religious said the same thing to Jesus. I am in good company. You have added a crown for me since I am trying to get people to place their faith in Jesus' work on the cross and not on their works as the only means of salvation.

Since You have said what you did I do not feel that we have anything in common to talk about and I do not like to argue especial since you say what I teach is Satanic. What would be the point in such a discussion?

Dispensationalism denies that in Christ there is no difference between people. It is a conjuring of a scheme that has left out the Holy Spirit. So then anything taken from that source of thinking is carnal in nature...not spiritual or real.

This error has gone a long way to creating a religious style of Christianity that is without the Spirit and power. It is by the reasoning of men.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Showing work by faith helps to prove that your work is not for nothing. Don't loose everything you have worked hard for because you will receive a reward in the end.

Isaiah 40:10-11
[10] Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand , and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. [11] He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

“...behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.” Are we not His work?

Psalm 56:13
[13] For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

Psalm 89:15
[15] Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O Lord , in the light of thy countenance.

Ephesians 5:8
[8] For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

 

[Enoch111]

I see that the biggest argument among those that write on forums is between those that believe works must be done to get and keep salvation (JAMES) and those who believe Paul when he said we (under grace) who place our faith God's promise of salvation based on Jesus' shed blood
alone will be saved.

You have completely misunderstood James, and chances are you will not change your mind.

But James does NOT teach salvation by works at all. However, he stresses the point that those who have genuine faith will also do the good works, so that their works demonstrate and confirm that they are indeed saved. And the Gospel says the exact same thing. So please note carefully what is stated below (Ephesians 2:8-10).

WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;...

SALVATION IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT EARNED
...and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

SALVATION IS NOT EARNED BY WORKS, LEST WE SHOULD BOAST
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

SALVATION MAKES US NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST
10 For we are his workmanship,...

WE ARE CREATED ANEW IN ORDER TO DO GOOD WORKS
...created in Christ Jesus unto good works,...

GOD WANTS OUR CHRISTIAN WALK TO INCLUDE GOOD WORKS
...which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Enoch111]

Dispensationalism denies that in Christ there is no difference between people. It is a conjuring of a scheme that has left out the Holy Spirit.

You are definitely not well-acquainted with Dispensationalism. Your assessment is false, and we are not to bear false witness.

 

[Episkopos]

You are definitely not well-acquainted with Dispensationalism. Your assessment is false, and we are not to bear false witness.

How is it false?

 

[H. Richard]

Dispensationalism denies that in Christ there is no difference between people. It is a conjuring of a scheme that has left out the Holy Spirit. So then anything taken from that source of thinking is carnal in nature...not spiritual or real.

This error has gone a long way to creating a religious style of Christianity that is without the Spirit and power. It is by the reasoning of men.

***
I don't know where you get your idea that dispensationaism """"denies""" that "IN CHRIST" there is no difference between people. It upholds the idea that "IN CHRIST" there is no difference between people. It does teach that their was a change in how a person is saved today. It is a fact that dispensationalist teach that all men must be saved by faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross and not by the works of men.
1 Cor 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV---not by the works of man

Your problem with teaching the scriptures as dispensations is that you don't have a clue as to what is being taught by a person who understands that "all things in the scripture are for our learning BUT not all are written to us.

Paul was not wrong when he said his gospel of God's grace was hidden in God and revealed to him.
Deut 29:29
29 "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
NKJV

God revealed the hidden gospel of grace and gave it to Paul to teach the whole world.

Perhaps you should see what a dispensationist believes before you make accusation towards those that study the scriptures and can see that God has dealt with mankind in different ways during the ages (ages means dispensations)

 

[Episkopos]

"H. Richard, post: 440196, member: 6940"]***
I don't know where you get your idea that dispensationaism """"denies""" that "IN CHRIST" there is no difference between people. It upholds the idea that "IN CHRIST" there is no difference between people.


brilliant. That's what the bible says. You should realize that this in itself sinks dispensationalism.



It does teach that their was a change in how a person is saved today.

False. God is always fair and requires a consistent character throughout history. What changed is the power (grace) that is available to men.

It is a fact that dispensationalist teach that all men must be saved by faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross and not by the works of men.
1 Cor 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV---not by the works of man

Your problem with teaching the scriptures as dispensations is that you don't have a clue as to what is being taught by a person who understands that "all things in the scripture are for our learning BUT not all are written to us.

I not only understand Dispensationalism but I know the spirit behind it.

Paul was not wrong when he said his gospel of God's grace was hidden in God and revealed to him.
Deut 29:29
29 "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
NKJV

God revealed the hidden gospel of grace and gave it to Paul to teach the whole world.

This is false since Paul taught the gospel of the kingdom ACCORDING TO GRACE. This is where you get further and further away from the truth as you apply this faulty reasoning. You need to understand the gospel first.

Acts 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.


23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.




Perhaps you should see what a dispensationist believes before you make accusation towards those that study the scriptures and can see that God has dealt with mankind in different ways during the ages (ages means dispensations)


Do you really think you are privy to inside information? The flesh reasons like the flesh. Dispensationalism favours the Jews as the perpetual people of God....according to the flesh...which in this scheme profits much.

 

[H. Richard]

WE ARE CREATED ANEW IN ORDER TO DO GOOD WORKS
...created in Christ Jesus unto good works,...

Some think that good works are what a person does in religions and it usually means keeping the law.

Good works are not works of the hands of mankind. God has already said our good works are as filthy rags. But the child of god is humble, not judgmental, understanding that they are not better than others, Is not prideful, Trying to live in peace with others. All of these are spiritual in that they are not physical. But, of course, all these take place in the heart and are usually not seen by men as good works.

A person on this forum who is judgmental towards individuals do not have good works of the heart. They love to use the word YOU. I am not saying anyone is wrong. I am stating what I believe. Don't I have a right to do that????????

 

[H. Richard]

Do you really think you are privy to inside information? The flesh reasons like the flesh. Dispensationalism favours the Jews as the perpetual people of God....according to the flesh...which in this scheme profits much.

***
Well, obviously you think you have been made privy to something.

Thank you for your input but I will just ignore the thoughts behind them.