“It is finished!” (John 19:30)

[Episkopos]

Ronald, I see it very differently. You believe Jesus was made sin and that the Father punished Him as our sin. But was Jesus actually sin? And did the Father really abandon Him?

When Jesus cried, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” He was quoting Psalm 22:1: “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” We have to remember that Jesus often used the Scriptures this way. He knew the Psalms and used them to point people to what was being fulfilled before their eyes.

Jesus was saying....My God My God why have you ENTANGLED Me. Jesus was combining 2 verses....from Ps 22 an Gen 22. The genius of God is that He keeps going deeper into the meaning of prophecy.

In Gen 22 we see a ram that God Himself provided caught in a thicket. The Hebrew word for thicket in the text is "sevach" or..basvach as in..."in the thicket". The VERB that describes being entangled like the ram in the thicket is "sabach". This meaning still holds true in Israel today.

So then when Jesus says sabachtani...He is saying that HE is the ram caught in the thicket as God's sacrifice.

That's why Jesus wore a crown of thorns. It represents Him caught in the thicket.

And I agree with you that God did not condemn Jesus as a sinner not even in a pretend way. The bible says...God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself. He was made to be sinful by evil men....not God


Blessings from Montreal <><

 

[LoveYeshua]

Jesus was saying....My God My God why have you ENTANGLED Me. Jesus was combining 2 verses....from Ps 22 an Gen 22. The genius of God is that He keeps going deeper into the meaning of prophecy.

In Gen 22 we see a ram that God Himself provided caught in a thicket. The Hebrew word for thicket in the text is "sevach" or..basvach as in..."in the thicket". The VERB that describes being entangled like the ram in the thicket is "sabach". This meaning still holds true in Israel today.

So then when Jesus says sabachtani...He is saying that HE is the ram caught in the thicket as God's sacrifice.

That's why Jesus wore a crown of thorns. It represents Him caught in the thicket.

And I agree with you that God did not condemn Jesus as a sinner not even in a pretend way. The bible says...God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself. He was made to be sinful by evil men....not God


Blessings from Montreal <><

interesting thank you!, ill look at it closer also like you said and I agree completely we have to look deeper, always something to learn.

I lived in Montreal several years ago still traffic? orange cones all over? LOL

 

[Episkopos]

interesting thank you!, ill look at it closer also like you said and I agree completely we have to look deeper, always something to learn.

I lived in Montreal several years ago still traffic? orange cones all over? LOL

LOL I escaped to the south shore...smaller city. :) Winter and construction.

Are you still in the Montreal region?

 

[LoveYeshua]

LOL I escaped to the south shore...smaller city. :) Winter and construction.

Are you still in the Montreal region?

nope eastern townships, also in a small town

Cheers

 

[PeterAndroz]

You have to study more Peter did say Paul is hard to understand did he not? do you think I make this up?

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I see examples of people twisting Paul's words every single day!

READ MORE! Paul is not easy!

Hard to understand for them
That's why Christ by revelation Gal 2:2 sent Paul to them to explain to them the Gospel Gal 1:11-12 that Christ taught Paul.
For us its simple
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13 with the performance requirements being Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
Are you claiming Paul has got it wrong ???

 

[LoveYeshua]

Hard to understand for them
That's why Christ by revelation Gal 2:2 sent Paul to them to explain to them the Gospel Gal 1:11-12 that Christ taught Paul.
For us its simple
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13 with the performance requirements being Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
Are you claiming Paul has got it wrong ???

Just remember peterAndroz, that Paul preached the same thing Jesus did. if something is missing or seem off Listen to Jesus and compare, always compare. Some, but I should say many, get what Paul says the wrong way and its important to get it right. there is only one truth. The words of Jesus are truth and eternal life, they are the only ones that saves.

We all have to remember that Paul’s epistles were written for specific churches. The recipients already had a solid foundation in the Christian faith. Although some letters addressed Gentile believers, they were written to established communities and their leaders, people who already knew many things about Jesus and the basic teachings of Christianity. This is important because Paul wrote from a position of deep knowledge and education. He was trained in Jewish Scripture and theology, familiar with Greek and Roman culture, and skilled in rhetoric and argumentation. Therefore, his letters often assume that readers understood certain beliefs, events, and teachings that he does not explain in detail. To interpret Paul accurately, we should consider not only what he wrote, but also what he already knew, what his original audience knew, and the specific problems each church was facing. It is why Paul is complicates and definitely NOT easy.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald scripture is ususlly clear . Jesus' words are crystal clear, Paul's are not easy to understand and unfortunately confuse many, I know I was one of them, for 20 plus years I stopped reading the Holy bible because I saw or taught I saw contradictions with what Christ was saying. on that, I learned this lesson : Jesus is the truth in all things . If Paul seem to say something else its because we did not understand. If you see a contradiction, The words of Christ have precedence, Why? because is is one with God and his words are eternal life.

Blessings.

There is no contradictions. You are just not reading Pauls passage correctly!

2 Corinthians 5:21

King James Version

​

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus knew no sin! He lived a sinless life.

But God made Jesus to be sin- so we would be made the righteousness of God inHIm., We have no righteousness in ourselves but God made us righteous just as He made Jesus to be sin.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Just remember peterAndroz, that Paul preached the same thing Jesus did. if something is missing or seem off Listen to Jesus and compare, always compare. Some, but I should say many, get what Paul says the wrong way and its important to get it right. there is only one truth. The words of Jesus are truth and eternal life, they are the only ones that saves.

We all have to remember that Paul’s epistles were written for specific churches. The recipients already had a solid foundation in the Christian faith. Although some letters addressed Gentile believers, they were written to established communities and their leaders, people who already knew many things about Jesus and the basic teachings of Christianity. This is important because Paul wrote from a position of deep knowledge and education. He was trained in Jewish Scripture and theology, familiar with Greek and Roman culture, and skilled in rhetoric and argumentation. Therefore, his letters often assume that readers understood certain beliefs, events, and teachings that he does not explain in detail. To interpret Paul accurately, we should consider not only what he wrote, but also what he already knew, what his original audience knew, and the specific problems each church was facing. It is why Paul is complicates and definitely NOT easy.

"Just remember peterAndroz, that Paul preached the same thing Jesus did""
Just remember LY,
Gal 1:11-12 ONLY Jesus taught Paul the gospel which Jesus Gal 2:2 sent Paul to the 12 to explain.
It it was IDENTICAL, then why did Christ need to send PAul to the 12 ?