“The Grand Difference”

[Netchaplain]

To fail to differentiate between dispensations is a normative within contemporary Christendom but I believe to fail to seek understanding in this area is to miss a great mass of spiritual growth doctrine available to the Word-hungry believer.

Presently, many do not realize God’s work of division between unbelieving Israel (consisting only of Jewish nationality) and that of the Church (the believer of all nationalities). When God united Himself with Israel it was for eternity and even though their (unbelieving Jew) fellowship is presently broken, He is remaining faithful to His Abrahamic promise to save many of them (Rom 11:26; Jer 31:31-34).

It is my personal belief that due to Israel’s unbelief before they see the Lord Jesus Christ, theirs will be of a lesser blessing (new Earth?) than that of those who believe in this life (new Heaven?); “Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed” (John 20:29).

I do not expect many to understand, be familiar or even desire this dispensational issue and after nearly twenty years of study and research in this area, I find the knowledge of this remains well in excess of its understanding.

-NC


“The Grand Difference”

The Old Testament, speaking broadly, is occupied with the promise and prophecy of the advent of the Messiah Who would come to the chosen people of Israel as their Prophet, and King, and exalt the seed of Abraham above all the nations of the earth. The blessings which the saints of old were taught to expect were of an earthly nature. The daughter of Zion was to look for the coming of her King Who would reign in righteousness. The oppressor should be broken in pieces, and their enemies made to lick the dust of the earth.

Peace should flow like a river, and the earth be full of the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters cover the sea. Long life and prosperous days should be the happy portion of every subject of the glorious kingdom of David’s Lord. In short, the Lord Jesus in the Old Testament is brought forward as the earthly ruler and the executor of divine justice in the earth, especially in connection with the nation of Israel. Accordingly the blessings of the people assume an earthly and national character in perfect accord with these promises.

Now just as the hopes of Israel derived their points of distinction from Messiah the Prince coming to reign here below, so the hopes and calling of the Church received their distinctive marks from the position now assumed by the Lord Jesus Christ on high. This establishes the widest possible difference between Israel and the Church. The difference is that betwixt earthly and heavenly, carnal and spiritual blessing. Where we look in the Old Testament we find the same kind of anticipations. In Egypt and the wilderness, they look for the land of promise with a bountiful basket and store. In Canaan when groaning under the idolatrous rule of apostate kings, or when weeping by the rivers of Babylon, the faithful long for the Redeemer to come to Zion, Who shall bless every man under his own vine and his own pomegranate tree.

But the New Testament sanctions no such expectations for the Christian. The Jew was entitled to hope for blessing here of a worldly nature; but the believer’s blessings are heavenly and spiritual, enjoyed by faith alone. They take their character from the risen and glorified Lord Jesus Christ at the Father’s right hand; and from Him, not as the king of Israel and the ruler of the nations, but as the glorified Head and Life of the Church.

Because a thing is in the Bible it does not warrant the conclusion that it is God’s will for the Christian: we must seek rightly to divide the Word of Truth. What was formerly right for the Jews is for us nothing but the elements of the world. These forms pointed to a reality that is now come; the Body is of the Lord Jesus. The blessed portion of the Christian is that he has died even to the best things of the world, and is now alive to spiritual things in the presence of the Father.

In the Old Testament we get the earthly or millennial family represented by the congregation of Israel, for whom the two goats were offered (Lev 16:8), and the heavenly family, the Church, by Aaron and his sons, whose offering was a bullock (Lev 8:6-14). In the one case, that of the earthly or millennial family, the law will be written in their hearts (Jer 31:33), the inclination to do evil will be superseded. In the other family, the heavenly, that is, Christian, the Lord Jesus is written in their hearts by the Holy Spirit; a great and important distinction, and indicating that the Christian’s blessings are in association with the Lord Jesus who has gone within the veil.

-W J Hocking

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

To fail to differentiate between dispensations is a normative within contemporary Christendom but I believe to fail to seek understanding in this area is to miss a great mass of spiritual growth doctrine available to the Word-hungry believer.

Presently, many do not realize God’s work of division between unbelieving Israel (consisting only of Jewish nationality) and that of the Church (the believer of all nationalities). When God united Himself with Israel it was for eternity and even though their (unbelieving Jew) fellowship is presently broken, He is remaining faithful to His Abrahamic promise to save many of them (Rom 11:26; Jer 31:31-34).

It is my personal belief that due to Israel’s unbelief before they see the Lord Jesus Christ, theirs will be of a lesser blessing (new Earth?) than that of those who believe in this life (new Heaven?); “Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed” (John 20:29).

I do not expect many to understand, be familiar or even desire this dispensational issue and after nearly twenty years of study and research in this area, I find the knowledge of this remains well in excess of its understanding.

-NC


“The Grand Difference”

The Old Testament, speaking broadly, is occupied with the promise and prophecy of the advent of the Messiah Who would come to the chosen people of Israel as their Prophet, and King, and exalt the seed of Abraham above all the nations of the earth. The blessings which the saints of old were taught to expect were of an earthly nature. The daughter of Zion was to look for the coming of her King Who would reign in righteousness. The oppressor should be broken in pieces, and their enemies made to lick the dust of the earth.

Peace should flow like a river, and the earth be full of the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters cover the sea. Long life and prosperous days should be the happy portion of every subject of the glorious kingdom of David’s Lord. In short, the Lord Jesus in the Old Testament is brought forward as the earthly ruler and the executor of divine justice in the earth, especially in connection with the nation of Israel. Accordingly the blessings of the people assume an earthly and national character in perfect accord with these promises.

Now just as the hopes of Israel derived their points of distinction from Messiah the Prince coming to reign here below, so the hopes and calling of the Church received their distinctive marks from the position now assumed by the Lord Jesus Christ on high. This establishes the widest possible difference between Israel and the Church. The difference is that betwixt earthly and heavenly, carnal and spiritual blessing. Where we look in the Old Testament we find the same kind of anticipations. In Egypt and the wilderness, they look for the land of promise with a bountiful basket and store. In Canaan when groaning under the idolatrous rule of apostate kings, or when weeping by the rivers of Babylon, the faithful long for the Redeemer to come to Zion, Who shall bless every man under his own vine and his own pomegranate tree.

But the New Testament sanctions no such expectations for the Christian. The Jew was entitled to hope for blessing here of a worldly nature; but the believer’s blessings are heavenly and spiritual, enjoyed by faith alone. They take their character from the risen and glorified Lord Jesus Christ at the Father’s right hand; and from Him, not as the king of Israel and the ruler of the nations, but as the glorified Head and Life of the Church.

Because a thing is in the Bible it does not warrant the conclusion that it is God’s will for the Christian: we must seek rightly to divide the Word of Truth. What was formerly right for the Jews is for us nothing but the elements of the world. These forms pointed to a reality that is now come; the Body is of the Lord Jesus. The blessed portion of the Christian is that he has died even to the best things of the world, and is now alive to spiritual things in the presence of the Father.

In the Old Testament we get the earthly or millennial family represented by the congregation of Israel, for whom the two goats were offered (Lev 16:8), and the heavenly family, the Church, by Aaron and his sons, whose offering was a bullock (Lev 8:6-14). In the one case, that of the earthly or millennial family, the law will be written in their hearts (Jer 31:33), the inclination to do evil will be superseded. In the other family, the heavenly, that is, Christian, the Lord Jesus is written in their hearts by the Holy Spirit; a great and important distinction, and indicating that the Christian’s blessings are in association with the Lord Jesus who has gone within the veil.

-W J Hocking

Dispensational folly. :mellow:

 

[Dodo_David]

In John 14:6, Messiah Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
When Messiah Jesus said that, he was talking to Jews.
Thus, every Jews needs the Messiah Jesus in order to be a citizen in the kingdom of God.

 

[daq]

In the Old Testament we get the earthly or millennial family represented by the congregation of Israel, for whom the two goats were offered (Lev 16:8), and the heavenly family, the Church, by Aaron and his sons, whose offering was a bullock (Lev 8:6-14). In the one case, that of the earthly or millennial family, the law will be written in their hearts (Jer 31:33), the inclination to do evil will be superseded. In the other family, the heavenly, that is, Christian, the Lord Jesus is written in their hearts by the Holy Spirit; a great and important distinction, and indicating that the Christian’s blessings are in association with the Lord Jesus who has gone within the veil.

-W J Hocking

The reason the author mentions Leviticus 16, (Yom Kippur) is because of his doctrine that "Yeshua is his scapegoat", (a completely false doctrine) and this comes from his own faulty understanding and teaching from Psalm 22 with the reason for why Yeshua quoted it on the Cross, (it was a "remez" pointing to the entire passage of Scripture). The following is an excerpt from what appears to be the same author, (please correct me if this is not true).

Quote]"The Cry of the Suffering Christ"

"'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me? why art Thou far from My salvation, from the words of my groaning? My God, I cry by day, and thou answerest not; and by night, and there is no rest for Me: and Thou art holy, Thou that dwellest amid the praises of Israel'

Psalm 22:1-3

In Psalm 22, we have one of the many Old Testament prophecies which refer directly to our Lord Jesus Christ. This one, however, is distinguished from the rest because it foretells facts concerning His unique and unfathomable sufferings which are not to be found in other predictions. Here we have them in all their simple, solemn, and pathetic sweetness from the lips of the Holy Sufferer Himself."[End quote.
http://www.plymouthbrethren.org/article/1932

Quote]Sufferings and Praises
"In Psalm 22, however, the sufferings of Christ are from God. Forsaking by God is expressed in its opening stanzas, and affords the key to the whole Psalm. The ferocity of men appears as in other Psalms, but the abandonment of the Messiah of Israel by the Holy One of Israel is, as it must necessarily be, the predominating features of the prophecy. Moreover, it is the holy Sufferer Himself Who confesses that he is forsaken by His God. He Who endured it describes it. He is, indeed, the Speaker throughout this Psalm. And as He records His own sufferings, so He declares the praises to God that follow as their effect. We learn that propitiation or atonement being accomplished, the earth, in due course, will become full of praises to God.
you will recollect how beautifully this combination of propitiation and praise is portrayed in Leviticus 16 by the blood and incense. There the great work of Christ's atonement is foreshewn in type. The blood of both the bullock and the goat is taken from the court of the tabernacle into the most holy place and sprinkled there upon and before the mercy-seat. Aaron enters that most holy place where Jehovah's presence rests enthroned upon the mercy-seat with blood and incense. The sprinkling of the blood of sacrifice in the required manner is accompanied by the fragrant fumes rising from the burning incense and affording a sweet odour to Him Who sits between the cherubim. Thus the type illustrates how the incense of praise is intimately associated with the propitiation Christ made in respect of our sins. His atoning work is the abiding basis for the believer's worship now, and for the homage of all men in the millennial day and kingdom.
As we were reminded this afternoon, the Father 'seeketh' worshippers; and if we are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, we have been constituted worshippers on the basis of the propitiatory work of the Lord Jesus, and the Father seeks that we worship Him as we are thereby entitled to do. What then can we offer to God the Father that will be acceptable? Shall we bring any material offering in our hands? Shall we bring anything in our hearts springing from our own natural affections and efforts? You surely know that we can find nothing in ourselves worthy of His acceptance.
Where then as worshippers shall we find what is sure to be acceptable to God the father? everything that concerns the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, is well-pleasing to the Father. And if one subject concerning Him is more acceptable than another, it is that which relates to His sufferings and death, whereby 'God was glorified in Him'. As worshippers, therefore, we need to have in our hearts a clear sense of the vast work of atonement accomplished upon the cross when He, the blessed Son of God, Who knew no sin, was 'made sin for us' by God (2 Cor. 5:21)."[End quote.
-W J Hocking
http://www.plymouthbrethren.org/article/1932

The author completely ignores what king David states in the very Psalm which is quoted to form his doctrine:

Psalms 22:12-26 KJV
12. Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13. They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14. I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15. My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16. For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19. But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23. Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24. For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25. My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26. The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

The Father NEVER turned his face away from the Son:
If one says he did then perhaps the same has been eating scapegoat. :huh:

 

[Netchaplain]

The reason the author mentions Leviticus 16, (Yom Kippur) is because of his doctrine that "Yeshua is his scapegoat", (a completely false doctrine) and this comes from his own faulty understanding and teaching from Psalm 22 with the reason for why Yeshua quoted it on the Cross, (it was a "remez" pointing to the entire passage of Scripture). The following is an excerpt from what appears to be the same author, (please correct me if this is not true).

Quote]"The Cry of the Suffering Christ"

"'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me? why art Thou far from My salvation, from the words of my groaning? My God, I cry by day, and thou answerest not; and by night, and there is no rest for Me: and Thou art holy, Thou that dwellest amid the praises of Israel'

Psalm 22:1-3

In Psalm 22, we have one of the many Old Testament prophecies which refer directly to our Lord Jesus Christ. This one, however, is distinguished from the rest because it foretells facts concerning His unique and unfathomable sufferings which are not to be found in other predictions. Here we have them in all their simple, solemn, and pathetic sweetness from the lips of the Holy Sufferer Himself."[End quote.
http://www.plymouthbrethren.org/article/1932

Quote]Sufferings and Praises
"In Psalm 22, however, the sufferings of Christ are from God. Forsaking by God is expressed in its opening stanzas, and affords the key to the whole Psalm. The ferocity of men appears as in other Psalms, but the abandonment of the Messiah of Israel by the Holy One of Israel is, as it must necessarily be, the predominating features of the prophecy. Moreover, it is the holy Sufferer Himself Who confesses that he is forsaken by His God. He Who endured it describes it. He is, indeed, the Speaker throughout this Psalm. And as He records His own sufferings, so He declares the praises to God that follow as their effect. We learn that propitiation or atonement being accomplished, the earth, in due course, will become full of praises to God.
you will recollect how beautifully this combination of propitiation and praise is portrayed in Leviticus 16 by the blood and incense. There the great work of Christ's atonement is foreshewn in type. The blood of both the bullock and the goat is taken from the court of the tabernacle into the most holy place and sprinkled there upon and before the mercy-seat. Aaron enters that most holy place where Jehovah's presence rests enthroned upon the mercy-seat with blood and incense. The sprinkling of the blood of sacrifice in the required manner is accompanied by the fragrant fumes rising from the burning incense and affording a sweet odour to Him Who sits between the cherubim. Thus the type illustrates how the incense of praise is intimately associated with the propitiation Christ made in respect of our sins. His atoning work is the abiding basis for the believer's worship now, and for the homage of all men in the millennial day and kingdom.
As we were reminded this afternoon, the Father 'seeketh' worshippers; and if we are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, we have been constituted worshippers on the basis of the propitiatory work of the Lord Jesus, and the Father seeks that we worship Him as we are thereby entitled to do. What then can we offer to God the Father that will be acceptable? Shall we bring any material offering in our hands? Shall we bring anything in our hearts springing from our own natural affections and efforts? You surely know that we can find nothing in ourselves worthy of His acceptance.
Where then as worshippers shall we find what is sure to be acceptable to God the father? everything that concerns the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, is well-pleasing to the Father. And if one subject concerning Him is more acceptable than another, it is that which relates to His sufferings and death, whereby 'God was glorified in Him'. As worshippers, therefore, we need to have in our hearts a clear sense of the vast work of atonement accomplished upon the cross when He, the blessed Son of God, Who knew no sin, was 'made sin for us' by God (2 Cor. 5:21)."[End quote.
-W J Hocking
http://www.plymouthbrethren.org/article/1932

The author completely ignores what king David states in the very Psalm which is quoted to form his doctrine:

Psalms 22:12-26 KJV
12. Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13. They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14. I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15. My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16. For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19. But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23. Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24. For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25. My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26. The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

The Father NEVER turned his face away from the Son:
If one says he did then perhaps the same has been eating scapegoat. :huh:

The reason the author mentions Leviticus 16, (Yom Kippur) is because of his doctrine that "Yeshua is his scapegoat", (a completely false doctrine) and this comes from his own faulty understanding and teaching from Psalm 22 with the reason for why Yeshua quoted it on the Cross, (it was a "remez" pointing to the entire passage of Scripture). The following is an excerpt from what appears to be the same author, (please correct me if this is not true).

Quote]"The Cry of the Suffering Christ"

"'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me? why art Thou far from My salvation, from the words of my groaning? My God, I cry by day, and thou answerest not; and by night, and there is no rest for Me: and Thou art holy, Thou that dwellest amid the praises of Israel'

Psalm 22:1-3

In Psalm 22, we have one of the many Old Testament prophecies which refer directly to our Lord Jesus Christ. This one, however, is distinguished from the rest because it foretells facts concerning His unique and unfathomable sufferings which are not to be found in other predictions. Here we have them in all their simple, solemn, and pathetic sweetness from the lips of the Holy Sufferer Himself."[End quote.
http://www.plymouthbrethren.org/article/1932

Quote]Sufferings and Praises
"In Psalm 22, however, the sufferings of Christ are from God. Forsaking by God is expressed in its opening stanzas, and affords the key to the whole Psalm. The ferocity of men appears as in other Psalms, but the abandonment of the Messiah of Israel by the Holy One of Israel is, as it must necessarily be, the predominating features of the prophecy. Moreover, it is the holy Sufferer Himself Who confesses that he is forsaken by His God. He Who endured it describes it. He is, indeed, the Speaker throughout this Psalm. And as He records His own sufferings, so He declares the praises to God that follow as their effect. We learn that propitiation or atonement being accomplished, the earth, in due course, will become full of praises to God.
you will recollect how beautifully this combination of propitiation and praise is portrayed in Leviticus 16 by the blood and incense. There the great work of Christ's atonement is foreshewn in type. The blood of both the bullock and the goat is taken from the court of the tabernacle into the most holy place and sprinkled there upon and before the mercy-seat. Aaron enters that most holy place where Jehovah's presence rests enthroned upon the mercy-seat with blood and incense. The sprinkling of the blood of sacrifice in the required manner is accompanied by the fragrant fumes rising from the burning incense and affording a sweet odour to Him Who sits between the cherubim. Thus the type illustrates how the incense of praise is intimately associated with the propitiation Christ made in respect of our sins. His atoning work is the abiding basis for the believer's worship now, and for the homage of all men in the millennial day and kingdom.
As we were reminded this afternoon, the Father 'seeketh' worshippers; and if we are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, we have been constituted worshippers on the basis of the propitiatory work of the Lord Jesus, and the Father seeks that we worship Him as we are thereby entitled to do. What then can we offer to God the Father that will be acceptable? Shall we bring any material offering in our hands? Shall we bring anything in our hearts springing from our own natural affections and efforts? You surely know that we can find nothing in ourselves worthy of His acceptance.
Where then as worshippers shall we find what is sure to be acceptable to God the father? everything that concerns the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, is well-pleasing to the Father. And if one subject concerning Him is more acceptable than another, it is that which relates to His sufferings and death, whereby 'God was glorified in Him'. As worshippers, therefore, we need to have in our hearts a clear sense of the vast work of atonement accomplished upon the cross when He, the blessed Son of God, Who knew no sin, was 'made sin for us' by God (2 Cor. 5:21)."[End quote.
-W J Hocking
http://www.plymouthbrethren.org/article/1932

The author completely ignores what king David states in the very Psalm which is quoted to form his doctrine:

Psalms 22:12-26 KJV
12. Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13. They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14. I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15. My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16. For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19. But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23. Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24. For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25. My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26. The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

The Father NEVER turned his face away from the Son:
If one says he did then perhaps the same has been eating scapegoat. :huh:
[/quote]

Hi DAQ - Just want to reply with a comment of Gill for now if you don't mind. God's blessings to your Family and thanks for the reply.

"One lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat: one had written upon it, as in the above account, "for the Lord"; and the other had written upon it, "for Azazel"; directing that the goat on which the lot for the Lord fell was to be slain and offered up for a sin offering to him; and the other, on which the lot for Azazel fell, was to be kept alive and let go: now, however casual and contingent the casting of a lot may seem to men, it is certain to God, the disposal of it is of him, and according to his determination, Proverbs 16:33; and this, in the mystical sense, here denotes, that the sufferings and death of Christ were according to the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, and so were foretold in the Scriptures, and came to pass according to his appointment, will, and command, as was also his resurrection from the dead, John 10:18; see Acts 1:23; and likewise his conflict with Satan, John 14:30."
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/QUOTE]

In John 14:6, Messiah Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
When Messiah Jesus said that, he was talking to Jews.
Thus, every Jews needs the Messiah Jesus in order to be a citizen in the kingdom of God.

Hi DD - I believe the Jews saved during the Millennium (Jer 31) will not be a part of the Body of Christ and will inherit the New Earth and the believers prior to the Millennium will inherit the New Heaven.

 

[daq]

Hi DAQ - Just want to reply with a comment of Gill for now if you don't mind. God's blessings to your Family and thanks for the reply.
"One lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat: one had written upon it, as in the above account, "for the Lord"; and the other had written upon it, "for Azazel"; directing that the goat on which the lot for the Lord fell was to be slain and offered up for a sin offering to him; and the other, on which the lot for Azazel fell, was to be kept alive and let go: now, however casual and contingent the casting of a lot may seem to men, it is certain to God, the disposal of it is of him, and according to his determination, Proverbs 16:33; and this, in the mystical sense, here denotes, that the sufferings and death of Christ were according to the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, and so were foretold in the Scriptures, and came to pass according to his appointment, will, and command, as was also his resurrection from the dead, John 10:18; see Acts 1:23; and likewise his conflict with Satan, John 14:30."

Sorry to inform you but Gill is also mistaken in his lack of Torah theology because "the goat for the Lord" is not to be eaten:

Leviticus 6:30 KJV
30. And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile withal in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.

Leviticus 16:27 KJV
27. And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.

However, there is a third goat which most do not consider:

Leviticus 10:16-18 KJV
16. And Moses diligently sought the goat of the sin offering, and, behold, it was burnt: and he was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, the sons of Aaron which were left alive, saying,
17. Wherefore have ye not eaten the sin offering in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God hath given it you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the Lord?
18. Behold, the blood of it was not brought in within the holy place: ye should indeed have eaten it in the holy place, as I commanded.

And the third goat of Yom Kippur is aside from the Atonement and the continual burnt offering:

Numbers 29:7-11 KJV
7. And ye shall have on the tenth day of this seventh month an holy convocation; and ye shall afflict your souls: ye shall not do any work therein:
8. But ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the Lord for a sweet savour; one young bullock, one ram, and seven lambs of the first year; they shall be unto you without blemish:
9. And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil, three tenth deals to a bullock, and two tenth deals to one ram,
10. A several tenth deal for one lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
11. One kid of the goats for a sin offering; beside the sin offering of atonement, and the continual burnt offering, and the meat offering of it, and their drink offerings.

Yeshua fulfilled his part and likewise the part which would have required our own physical death.
There is therefore critical reasoning why Paul states we must mortify the "old man" sin nature.

 

[Netchaplain]

Sorry to inform you but Gill is also mistaken in his lack of Torah theology because "the goat for the Lord" is not to be eaten:

Leviticus 6:30 KJV
30. And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile withal in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.

There is therefore critical reasoning why Paul states we must mortify the "old man" sin nature.

It's a significant point you've indicated, but just wanted to know, where in Gill's comment is eating of the offering mentioned? Regardless, he also shares this:

"Every offering, and so every sin offering, was killed in the court of the tabernacle, on the north side of the altar; and the blood of some of them, as on the day of atonement, was carried within the vail and sprinkled on the mercy seat for reconciling the holy place, and making atonement for it; now the flesh of such sin offerings might not be eaten by the priests, though all others might."

In sharing my understanding concerning mortification (Rom 8:13) of the sinful nature ("old man"), I believe our part is yielding (Rom 6:13) to the Holy Spirit to do this in us (Gal 5:17), because I do not think any believer can apply the power of the Cross to the old man (Rom 6:6). It requires the act from a Deity (Father, Son or Spirit).

Same for righteousness, holiness, justification, etc., these are imputed and not imparted, for the attributes of God cannot be given but only partook, e.i. no man has righteousness or can be holy, of which can only vicariously be partaken.

Hope my reply wasn't overkill but rather just sharing for instructions sake.

 

[daq]

It's a significant point you've indicated, but just wanted to know, where in Gill's comment is eating of the offering mentioned? Regardless, he also shares this:

"Every offering, and so every sin offering, was killed in the court of the tabernacle, on the north side of the altar; and the blood of some of them, as on the day of atonement, was carried within the vail and sprinkled on the mercy seat for reconciling the holy place, and making atonement for it; now the flesh of such sin offerings might not be eaten by the priests, though all others might."

In sharing my understanding concerning mortification (Rom 8:13) of the sinful nature ("old man"), I believe our part is yielding (Rom 6:13) to the Holy Spirit to do this in us (Gal 5:17), because I do not think any believer can apply the power of the Cross to the old man (Rom 6:6). It requires the act from a Deity (Father, Son or Spirit).

Same for righteousness, holiness, justification, etc., these are imputed and not imparted, for the attributes of God cannot be given but only partook, e.i. no man has righteousness or can be holy, of which can only vicariously be partaken.

Hope my reply wasn't overkill but rather just sharing for instructions sake.

I have emphasized it in bold red italics below:

NetChaplain, on 23 Jul 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Hi DAQ - Just want to reply with a comment of Gill for now if you don't mind. God's blessings to your Family and thanks for the reply.
"One lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat: one had written upon it, as in the above account, "for the Lord"; and the other had written upon it, "for Azazel"; directing that the goat on which the lot for the Lord fell was to be slain and offered up for a sin offering to him; and the other, on which the lot for Azazel fell, was to be kept alive and let go: now, however casual and contingent the casting of a lot may seem to men, it is certain to God, the disposal of it is of him, and according to his determination, Proverbs 16:33; and this, in the mystical sense, here denotes, that the sufferings and death of Christ were according to the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, and so were foretold in the Scriptures, and came to pass according to his appointment, will, and command, as was also his resurrection from the dead, John 10:18; see Acts 1:23; and likewise his conflict with Satan, John 14:30."

He is clearly insinuating that the goat chosen by lot "for the Lord" represents Yeshua, (many others suggest that Yeshua is both). However, the Priest offers a bullock for himself and his house to begin with. Likewise the blood of this goat is brought into the sanctuary for atonement and therefore cannot be eaten. The third goat from Numbers 29:11 is also a sin offering and likewise that which is most holy, in that day, and to be partaken of or eaten. The two goats from Leviticus 16 are supplied by the congregation, (not the Priest) and the one chosen by lot for the Lord is the atonement for the congregation and not for the Priest. In addition the Passover may be either of the lambs or of the goats:

Exodus 12:5-10 KJV
5. Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6. And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7. And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8. And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9. Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10. And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.

The Passover is not a sin offering but a memorial. However, if one inquires a little deeper he will find that the day in which Nadab and Abihu died before the Lord was the first Passover in the wilderness, immediately after the Tabernacle was first set up, in the second year of the children of Israel having come out of Egypt. The problem mentioned above, (where Aaron and his sons had not partaken of the third goat) reveals that the full atonement ceremonies of the Passover could not be accomplished by mere mortal men as Priests. Therefore the "rehearsal" date of 10 Tishri was instituted. This is revealed in the opening of Leviticus 16:

Leviticus 16:1 KJV
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered before the Lord, and died;

Yeshua therefore fulfilled everything necessary concerning Yom Kippur, (for his part) at the Passover and the two are one great Day. In addition Yeshua says of himself: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever."

This is the Pesach lamb or goat; and he is neither the goat for Azazel, of Leviticus 16, nor the goat chosen by lot for the Lord.
May your doctrine pay heed to these things! For who therefore is the goat chosen by lot for the Lord if not Yeshua?
Therefore every man must die; thanks be to God that Yeshua has made this interpretation supernal for our sakes!