1 John 3:9 - Is it cannot "practice" sin, or cannot "commit" sin?

[Lambano]

....John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10)....

There is a time and a season under heaven to look at the pretty trees (as they turn! turn! turn!), and a time and a season to look at the forest.

I'm talking about looking at the letter as a whole. Who is it written to? (Excuse me; "To whom is it written?") What is it's purpose? What are the major themes? How does the passage in question advance the author's purpose? These are basic reading comprehension skills that should be taught in every American high school (and probably isn't anymore, but let's not go down that rat-hole).

John states his purpose in 1 John 2:1: "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin." (Aorist Active Subjunctive, the mood of possibility without reference to time, if you're into that stuff.) That's the theme: I don't want you whom I consider my children to sin. The immediately preceding context supports the author's purpose by establishing that we possess (ἔχω, "to have", Present Active Indicative) sin now and we have sinned in the past. This is why John hammers on his target audience: You must resist sin.

 

[Lambano]

...This is clearly a gnostic belief...

Maybe. 1 John 4:2 and (if I can pull in a verse from the rest of the Johannine corpus) 2 John 1:7 would indicate that John's flock did have to deal with those Gnasty Gnostics and the Docetic belief that Jesus Christ the perfect Son of God could never REALLY have taken on corrupt material substance such as sinful flesh; He only appeared to.

Now that we've brought the Greek philosophy of John's time into play, I'm going to talk about Forms and Types and apply it to the verse in question. If John had to deal with Gnosticism and Docetism, he would also have to have an understanding of Plato.

Long before John, Plato had a theory that all things in creation are imperfect manifestations of an ideal Form, i.e. the trees we see are implementations of the idea of a "Tree" in imperfect material substances. There was considerable debate in the early Church (here I cite Christian philosopher Paul Tillich) whether those ideal Forms actually exist in Heaven. This wasn't just navel gazing; I hope everyone can see WHY this was important to the early Church. Applying that to 1 John 3:9, there is an ideal Form of a Son (or Daughter) of God, and that ideal Form CANNOT SIN. We are currently those imperfect manifestations of that ideal Form. However, 1 John 3:2 promises us that we WILL one day be perfect implementations of that ideal Form. And that ideal Form of a Son of God looks like Jesus Christ:

2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is a time and a season under heaven to look at the pretty trees (as they turn! turn! turn!), and a time and a season to look at the forest.

I'm talking about looking at the letter as a whole. Who is it written to? (Excuse me; "To whom is it written?") What is it's purpose? What are the major themes? How does the passage in question advance the author's purpose? These are basic reading comprehension skills that should be taught in every American high school (and probably isn't anymore, but let's not go down that rat-hole).

John states his purpose in 1 John 2:1: "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin." (Aorist Active Subjunctive, the mood of possibility without reference to time, if you're into that stuff.) That's the theme: I don't want you whom I consider my children to sin. The immediately preceding context supports the author's purpose by establishing that we possess (ἔχω, "to have", Present Active Indicative) sin now and we have sinned in the past.

One Christian on this forum told me the Bible is no different than reading a magazine, novel, etcetera. They are wrong. While the Bible should be read with the rules of grammar, and include basic reader questions, that is not how one understands the Bible ultimately. In 1 John 2:27, we need to have the Anointing (the Spirit) to understand His Word. Atheists have read the Bible and they still don’t understand what the Bible says.

Secondly, while asking these kinds of questions may be of benefit to a reader, if they have a… “sin and still be saved” mindset (like interpreting 1 John 1:8 as a justification to sin on some level or to sin again or to declare we have always have sin then they are ignoring the context like 1 John 2:1 that tells us to “sin not” and 1 John 2:3-4, 1 John 3:10, etcetera), they are never going to understand because Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness they are proud and they know nothing (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. God says in His Word, “Be ye holy; for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:16).

1 Corinthians 2:4 says, “And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:”

Many Christians on the day of Judgment are going to be in for a shock. They followed their pastors and or teachers that they can justify sin (even just a little bit of sin and not habitual sin) and they are good to enter the Kingdom. But they will hear the frightful words of our LORD in Matthew 7:23. It’s because they did not do what Jesus said (See: Matthew 7:26-27). They treated salvation as if it was a wide gate path and not a narrow one. For example: I believe the Bible alone + the Anointing to Understand It, and I am also non-denominational, and I believe many in Christianity are led astray today. Protestant Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism makes up the second largest branch of Christianity. Problem is that many of them teach you can backslide into sin and be saved (See the Gotquestions article here). Others teach that you can commit suicide and be saved, and or take the mark of the beast and be saved (See my post here). Jesus said,

“Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” (Luke 13:24).

Protestant Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationist churches number close to 1 billion. They are the second largest branch after Catholicism (Which is the 1st largest branch of Christianity). The narrow way is not the way that many are following that justify sin. But if you want to play games with your soul in taking a chance on making room for sin your life (So as to justify it when GOD is good), then be prepared to be wrong and lose it all. See… Jesus wants us to do this:

“Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.” (Matthew 16:24-25).

One is not picking up their cross and denying themselves if they also love the things of this world and they justify sin. Jesus says whoever will save his life shall lose it. Meaning, if they live for themselves and or their sin, they will lose it. But if we lose our lives for Christ and deny ourselves and our sin, we shall find our life with Christ. Don’t be deceived. The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. See also Matthew 13:41-42.

 

[Lambano]

One Christian on this forum told me the Bible is no different than reading a magazine, novel, etcetera. They are wrong. While the Bible should be read with the rules of grammar, and include basic reader questions, that is not how one understands the Bible ultimately. In 1 John 2:27, we need to have the Anointing (the Spirit) to understand His Word. Atheists have read the Bible and they still don’t understand what the Bible says.

We don't control the Spirit's enlightening us; God does that. We DO control and are responsible for learning and using basic reading comprehension skills.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We don't control the Spirit's enlightening us; God does that. We DO control and are responsible for learning and using basic reading comprehension skills.

Notice that you did not even address any of the verses I have put forth to you. The verses I put forth should demolish your belief that you currently have. So my encouragement to you is to simply look at those verses again and read them closely and ask God to send you the Spirit for the understanding (Even if it means you may be wrong).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Maybe. 1 John 4:2 and (if I can pull in a verse from the rest of the Johannine corpus) 2 John 1:7 would indicate that John's flock did have to deal with those Gnasty Gnostics and the Docetic belief that Jesus Christ the perfect Son of God could never REALLY have taken on corrupt material substance such as sinful flesh; He only appeared to.

Now that we've brought the Greek philosophy of John's time into play, I'm going to talk about Forms and Types and apply it to the verse in question. If John had to deal with Gnosticism and Docetism, he would also have to have an understanding of Plato.

Long before John, Plato had a theory that all things in creation are imperfect manifestations of an ideal Form, i.e. the trees we see are implementations of the idea of a "Tree" in imperfect material substances. There was considerable debate in the early Church (here I cite Christian philosopher Paul Tillich) whether those ideal Forms actually exist in Heaven. This wasn't just navel gazing; I hope everyone can see WHY this was important to the early Church. Applying that to 1 John 3:9, there is an ideal Form of a Son (or Daughter) of God, and that ideal Form CANNOT SIN. We are currently those imperfect manifestations of that ideal Form. However, 1 John 3:2 promises us that we WILL one day be perfect implementations of that ideal Form. And that ideal Form of a Son of God looks like Jesus Christ:

2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

You are quoting a philosopher? Really? Is that how you build the faith? Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). You should shun secular and worldly wisdom and just read and believe your Bible alone and ask GOD for the Spirit to help you understand it. That’s all you need. You don’t need all that extra biblical worldly junk. Why? Because most of them believe you can sin and still be saved on some level. So that is what you will believe if that is what they believe. Again, if you actually think God is okay with you having a sin and still be saved mindset then that means God would have to agree with your sin in order for you to think 1 John 1:8 is a banner flag of saying we must always sin in this life (Which is a justification to do evil and sin). But GOD is holy and good and He cannot agree with your sin. This is what will be a shock to you come Judgment day if you don’t change this false way of thinking in this life.

 

[Lambano]

Secondly, while asking these kinds of questions may be of benefit to a reader, if they have a… “sin and still be saved” mindset (like interpreting 1 John 1:8 as a justification to sin on some level or to sin again or to declare we have always have sin...

There's a different mindset I'm concerned with. I see The Accuser (through his earthly minions and through the believer's conscience) using 1 John 3:9 to beat the Children. The logical syllogism is brutal: A Child of God cannot do sin. You just sinned; therefore, you are not a Child of God and you're going to Hell (and I'm glad!) John addresses that in 1 John 1:8-10, 1 John 2:1-2, and 1 John 3:1-2, but then we're told, no, atonement is only for past sins. You can't trust Father to forgive you 70x7 times. No wonder we're so d*** neurotic.

 

[Behold]

Paul says he was blameless in TOUCHING the righteousness which is in the Law. .

You're the confused one., once again.
And that will continue., as that is what cult teaching causes.
Here is what Paul said.. ( see verses below).
And go ahead and get a dictionary and look up the word "BLAMELESS"

Also, the context of Paul's verses in Philippians, isn't that he was harming Christians.
But rather he was showing you that he had lived the life of Law and Torah, and he discovered it was USELESS.
Why?
Because that striving to be good, and keeping law, can't make you Righteous, and without Righteousness you wont go to Heaven...
How do you get it?
God gives it to you as "The Gift of Righteousness" = born again.
This is what Paul is teaching.


Notices these verses that speak of Paul being blameless in the Law.
-

King James Bible
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

New King James Version
concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

New American Standard Bible
as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

NASB 1995
as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

NASB 1977
as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
-

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"Commit" and "Practice" refer to two different types of behavior: a spouse may commit murder once to get rid of an abusive husband or unfaithful wife, but a serial killer "practices" habitual murder. In my long Christian experience, I've seen only two interpretations of 1 John 3:9 KJV:

1) "Commit Sin" - the Christian cannot "commit sin" because his sinful behavior is no longer regarded as "sin" in the sight of God and therefore demands no punishment (while the sinner's identical behavior demands eternal punishment). A blind man can see this makes grace a OSAS License to Sin.

2) "Practice Sin" - the Christian cannot continue to "practice sin" which is habitual, deliberate, known, presumptuous, impenitent sin, and instead chooses to permanently repent from it - because grace leads him to the place where he would rather die than continue to grieve the heart of God, knowing the height and breadth and depth of His love will be shown to us in new revelation for all eternity.​

The Christian who's satisfied with committing the same sins today that he was committing 5 years ago has ceased from being covered by His grace and the unavoidable growth in it.

Wow, you heard a whopper of a definition for commit. If we cannot commit sin it is like a lamb who cannot eat meat. That is what it is like to be born again without the taste for sin. It is abhorrent. Only the old Gnostics invented the definition you heard, and especially the Nicolaitans, and God hates their deeds.

My personal belief is commit, but my personal definition of practice is the reasoning of well, I don't actually practice fornication, so tonight's date won't matter.

What do you personally believe the meaning of 1 John 3:9 means?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There's a different mindset I'm concerned with. I see The Accuser (through his earthly minions and through the believer's conscience)

but then we're told, no, atonement is only for past sins. You can't trust Father to forgive you 70x7 times. No wonder we're so d*** neurotic.

And you don’t think your camp has not falsely accused? I have been at these kinds of discussions for over 10 years, and I seen the venom spewed from your side of the camp. Granted, I am not keeping any record of any wrongs. But the point here is that a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit, and bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. I have also been falsely accused by those in your camp, and told my understanding on the Bible is not true, etc., etc. (When I am just reading it plainly). When push comes to shove and I ask many who believe as you do, many of you (not all) will simply ignore the verses I put forth to them. Those few that do try to explain the verses I challenge them with simply try to undo what that verse actually says (Which shows you the problem in many who claim hold to the name Christian). We both cannot be right on our understanding on the Bible. I love you in Jesus Christ, but I hate your belief because it is not only not found in the Bible, but it is immoral. Judgment of the false belief is going to be inevitable and one will obviously think the other is not going to make it because we are talking about salvation here. By no means is it personal. The Word of God and not philosophers or worldly wisdom should determine our faith on this matter.

A Child of God cannot do sin. You just sinned; therefore, you are not a Child of God and you're going to Hell (and I'm glad!)

You also say that I am going to hell and you are glad. That is not a godly or loving mindset to have.

Ezekiel 33:11

“Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?”​

Why do you think God so loved the world according to John 3:16 if not all of the world will be saved? It’s because God is love. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Even to Israel, God says this:

“But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.” (Romans 10:21).​

The logical syllogism is brutal:

Our form of reasoning must be from God’s eyes and not our own eyes. We are told to be ye holy as He is holy (See again 1 Peter 1:16). God cannot ever justify sin, therefore, your form of reasoning (syllogism) is in serious error, and you need to repent and either return to the Lord your GOD or accept Him for the first time (as how He really is). God is good, and His people are good, too. This is what you fail to understand. Alas, I know that only God and His Word can break the strongholds in your thinking here. But if you refuse to receive the love of the truth, it will of course not end well for you, my friend. I do hope you change your mind before it’s too late because I don’t want to see you perish because I care for you, and love you in Jesus Christ and want to see all saved and come to the true knowledge and good ways of our Lord Jesus Christ.

…using 1 John 3:9 to beat the Children.

Some like poster “Taken” believe that 1 John 3:9 is saying that when they physically sin (from our perspective) God does not see their sin and they are not really sinning. He says he is not capable of sinning because of a belief alone on Jesus Christ for His salvation, etcetera. This is Hyper Grace.

Then there is a belief that I call Partial Hyper Grace. This is most of Christianity from my experience. They believe that if a Christian practices sin, then they were never born again to begin with, but yet individual sins done on occasion does not separate them from God. As I told you before (from the Got questions’ article), many in this camp claim the same thing that backslidden Christians are saved. This means that they are saying that the prodigal son who was living it up with prostitutes was saved. So this is no different than Hyper Grace. Living in sin and being saved any amount of time leads to spiritual death. Just justifying one sin can lead to spiritual death. It happened with Adam and Eve, and it happened with Ananias and Sapphira. The serpent was trying to convince Eve that she would not die if she broke God’s command. The same lie is being pushed today (even in the Partial Hyper Grace camp). So you are either for taking a stand for doing the right thing or the wrong thing with God.

John addresses that in 1 John 1:8-10, 1 John 2:1-2, and 1 John 3:1-2,

Stop and think a moment. A drunkard may join a “get free alcohol program” to overcome their sin of alcoholism, but they may stumble along the way. However, that does not mean that they will not in time overcome their sin in this life become alcohol free and never stumble again. Their occasional times they stumbled does not necessitate their ongoing future of being booze free and or no longer being a slave to the demon in the bottle.

Jesus says,

“Most assuredly, I say to you,
whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.”
(John 8:34) (NKJV).​

In the next verse, Jesus says this slave of sin will not abide in the house forever.

“And a slave does not abide in the house forever,…”
(John 8:35) (NKJV).​

We see this take place in Matthew 13:41-42.

“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth”​

In other words, Jesus is going to send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS Kingdom them who do iniquity (sin) and they shall be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire). So the slave to sin will not abide in the house of Christ (or His Kingdom) forever.
Jesus needs to give His Kingdom to God the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24), and before He can do that, He needs to set that Kingdom in order and remove the tares from the wheat at the Judgment. So those believers who justify sin in the end are not going to make it into God’s Kingdom.

To overcoming sin in this life, I would encourage you to check out 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, Romans 13:14, and 2 Corinthians 7:1.

In fact, Peter warns us against certain false teachers who cannot cease from sin (See: 2 Peter 2:1, and 2 Peter 2:14).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

As for Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationists who still do not understand Philippians 3:6: Paul was blameless in touching the righteousness of the Law. Touching and embracing are two different concepts. Again, it does not mean he was blameless before God. Romans 7:14-24 shows Paul speaking from his perspective as a Pharisee in trying to keep the Old Law and yet he failed to keep it.

Somebody who is not able to keep the Law is not blameless. So Paul was only TOUCHING the righteousness of the Law and he was only blameless in the eyes of the Pharisees or their false religion. But alas, many will still most likely not get it and they will do anything to ignore the obvious truth in Scripture and justify sin under God’s grace. I do hope that does change for them and they have a wake up call someday.

Side Note:

In regards to the word “flesh” mentioned in Romans 8 (Which plays off the heels of Romans 7:14-24): Being in the “flesh” is one trying to be under the 613 Laws of Moses (of which we are not under) or one trying to justify sin. This is why Paul could not overcome his sin. He was wrongfully trying to be justified by the Old Law with none of God’s grace (Jesus Christ). At this point of his life as a Pharisee: Saul (Paul) needed to come out from being justified under the Old Law, and receive Jesus. By the grace of God we see Paul was blessed that such a thing happened.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

but then we're told, no, atonement is only for past sins.

Well, you are blessed that you have heard the truth. For your only told this because it’s in the Bible.

The Bible teaches only past sins are forgiven us (not future sins).

Believers need to confess and
forsake sin to continue to obtain forgiveness (or salvation).

Here are the verses in the Bible that teach or imply that past sins only are forgiven:

2 Peter 1:9 KJB
“But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.”

2 Peter 1:9 BLB
“For in whomever these things are not present, he is blind, being short sighted, having received forgetfulness of the purification from his former sins.”

1 John 1:9 KJB
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

Acts of the Apostles 8:22 KJB
“Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.”

Hebrews 10:26 KJB
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”

Proverbs 28:13 KJB
“He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.”

Romans 6:22-23 KJB
22 “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Romans 8:13 KJB
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJB
9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

John 3:20 KJB
“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.”

1 John 3:15 KJB
“Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

1 John 3:8 KJB
“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”

Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11 KJB
1 “But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.”

Matthew 10:33 KJB
“But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”

Matthew 6:15 KJB
“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”

Revelation 22:12-15 KJB
12 “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You can't trust Father to forgive you 70x7 times.

Believers need to confess of their sins to be forgiven of them (1 John 1:9). Believers also need to forsake their sin in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). It’s why the Ninevites did not receive God’s wrath. In Jonah 3, we learn God did not bring wrath upon them because they had forsaken their evil ways. The same is true for us. If we don’t confess and forsake sin, we will not be forgiven or saved. There is no Bible verse that says we are to just trust God will forgive us even if we continue to keep sinning. Paul asks, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul’s answer was, God forbid (See: Romans 6:1-2). Meaning, no. You cannot continue in sin so that grace may abound. So just believing God will forgive you even if you continue to sin will not work. The 70 x 7 verse must be read in the light of the truth that we must confess and forsake our sins to have mercy (i.e. salvation).

 

[Lambano]

There's a different mindset I'm concerned with. I see The Accuser (through his earthly minions and through the believer's conscience) using 1 John 3:9 to beat the Children. The logical syllogism is brutal: A Child of God cannot do sin. You just sinned; therefore, you are not a Child of God and you're going to Hell (and I'm glad!) John addresses that in 1 John 1:8-10, 1 John 2:1-2, and 1 John 3:1-2, but then we're told, no, atonement is only for past sins. You can't trust Father to forgive you 70x7 times. No wonder we're so d*** neurotic.

The logic is unforgiving. There's several ways we handle the beatings. We can get into the sin-repent-sin-repent loop. (If you commit the same sin, did you really repent the first time? Did you lose your salvation and get it back?)

We can tell ourselves that we really don't have any sin (in thought, word, and deed? In loving our neighbor as ourselves? Does it make us like the man in Jesus's parable who prayed, "God, I thank thee that you've made me not like other men"? )

Or we can do what Paul does in Romans 7:20 and go schizophrenic ("It's not me; it's my flesh sinning!") so we don't have to own our sin.

Or, we can conclude that the Bible is logically incoherent and throw the whole thing out...

Or, we interpret the Present Active Indicative case of the key verbs in the verse in question as meaning "practicing sin continuously", and add the word continuously in italics to the translation a la NASB 20:

"No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God."

The whole premise of this thread based on how we handle our insecurities caused by the reality of sin.

 

[marks]

There's a different mindset I'm concerned with. I see The Accuser (through his earthly minions and through the believer's conscience) using 1 John 3:9 to beat the Children. The logical syllogism is brutal: A Child of God cannot do sin. You just sinned; therefore, you are not a Child of God and you're going to Hell (and I'm glad!) John addresses that in 1 John 1:8-10, 1 John 2:1-2, and 1 John 3:1-2, but then we're told, no, atonement is only for past sins. You can't trust Father to forgive you 70x7 times. No wonder we're so d*** neurotic.

This is why it's so important to understand what Justification in Christ actually is, and how it separates us from our sins completely and forever.

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The logic is unforgiving. There's several ways we handle the beatings. We can get into the sin-repent-sin-repent loop. (If you commit the same sin, did you really repent the first time? Did you lose your salvation and get it back?)

You fail to take into account that God wants you to overcome your sin in this life (See again 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, Romans 13:14, and 2 Corinthians 7:1).

Drunkards may stumble in a drug free program, but that does not mean in time they cannot eventually be alcohol free.

You cannot build your faith based on sight or based upon looking to your life or the lives of others. We are to walk by faith and not by sight (According to the Bible). You must BELIEVE.

We can tell ourselves that we really don't have any sin (in thought, word, and deed? In loving our neighbor as ourselves? Does it make us like the man in Jesus's parable who prayed, "God, I thank thee that you've made me not like other men"? )

Believers need to go through a purification process to get there. In the end they need to be in a righteous state when they die.

1 John 3:3
“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”

Or we can do what Paul does in Romans 7:20 and go schizophrenic ("It's not me; it's my flesh sinning!") so we don't have to own our sin.

Or, we can conclude that the Bible is logically incoherent and throw the whole thing out...

Or, we interpret the Present Active Indicative case of the key verbs in the verse in question as meaning "practicing sin continuously", and add the word continuously in italics to the translation a la NASB 20:

"No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God."

The whole premise of this thread based on how we handle our insecurities caused by the reality of sin.

As I just pointed out, in Romans 7:14-24, Paul is speaking from his perspective as a Pharisee. Otherwise why would he ask for One to deliver from his body of death if he already knows Jesus? Romans 8 is the Christian solution to Paul’s struggle with sin as a Pharisee in Romans 7:14-24.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is why it's so important to understand what Justification in Christ actually is, and how it separates us from our sins completely and forever.

Much love!

Not only are we freely justified by God’s grace (Romans 3:24), but the Bible also says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). This is because works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11) is a part of our faith. For Hebrews 11 describes faith as both a belief alone (Hebrews 11:3), and as in doing what God tells you to do (Hebrews 11:7). Faith is how we gain access to God’s grace (Romans 5:2). So if we don’t have the correct kind of faith, then there is no real access to God’s grace. Sure, salvation starts of as a belief alone, but it does not remain that way. Believers must in time grow to have the faith like Noah had (Hebrews 11:7).

 

[marks]

The Bible teaches only past sins are forgiven us (not future sins).

No, the Bible teaches we've become dead to sin and dead to the Law, and therefore are no longer under any condemnation. This is not dependant upon our future behavior.

I think anyone who is self-aware and honest with themself knows that they continue to commit sins. Sin is anything that is not of faith, or not doing anything you know you should do. Are any of us the perfect man who loves God perfectly, continuously? Loving each other perfectly, continuously? That doesn't describe me, I can tell you that.

Sin is not just a behavior, it's a law of death. Either you are dead in sin or you are not. The difference being whether you've been made alive in Christ, not whether you've fixed your behavior. And still, sin is a symptom of the corruption of death from Adam. All humanity in the loins of Adam, and he died, corrupted by sin, humanity died.

2 Peter 1:9 KJV
9) But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

Can anyone else sense the undercurrents of insecurity and pride and hard-heartedness?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, the Bible teaches we've become dead to sin and dead to the Law, and therefore are no longer under any condemnation. This is not dependant upon our future behavior.

This is false. Romans 8:1 says

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

So if you are not walking after the Spirit and you are walking after the flesh (sin or being under the Old Law), then you are under the Condemnation.

Read also Romans 8:13, and then read Galatians 6:8-9.

They that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).

BELIEVE.