1 John 3:9 - Is it cannot "practice" sin, or cannot "commit" sin?

[Bible Highlighter]

Can anyone else feel the undercurrents of insecurity and pride and hard-heartedness?

You are just going off your feelings here? The Bible is above your own feelings or thoughts.

Jeremiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am prideful, insecure, and can be very mean, @Lambano.


-shrugs- Thank God for the Spirit, and Gods grace right?

I suppose it does not matter if one believes in Universalism (if that is what you still believe).
As for others: I suppose it does not matter for others if they did this seeing they believe in OSAS, or the Free Will Baptist sin and still be saved type belief. Today, we are living in the last days and many are justifying that they can sin and still be saved. But just keep reading your Bible more closely and read and believe it. Ask God to send you His Spirit to open your eyes to the truth as you read His Word. He will not allow you to read the Bible the wrong way.

 

[Behold]

That’s why Paul stressed that we are saved by God’s grace through faith without works in our Initial Salvation in several places in Scripture (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Romans 4:3-5) (Titus 3:5).

"initial salvation" is something you made up., as there is not such thing.

"Salvation" is to be born again, and that is not "initial"......that is eternal., as being born again puts you into the Spirit of God as a Son/Daughter, of God.

 

[MatthewG]

There will always be biblical scholars out there in the world.

The best teacher is the Spirit to have love for God and love for Others.

Just because a person doesn't see the same things your way, doesn't mean it is your job to always have to correct them.

Ya know ? @Bible Highlighter God by the Spirit can do it just fine.

 

[marks]

Not only are we freely justified by God’s grace (Romans 3:24), but the Bible also says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). This is because works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11) is a part of our faith. For Hebrews 11 describes faith as both a belief alone (Hebrews 11:3), and as in doing what God tells you to do (Hebrews 11:7). Faith is how we gain access to God’s grace (Romans 5:2). So if we don’t have the correct kind of faith, then there is no real access to God’s grace. Sure, salvation starts of as a belief alone, but it does not remain that way. Believers must in time grow to have the faith like Noah had (Hebrews 11:7).

If you believe Jesus is Lord, you'll obey Him, right? And if you've been born again, you'll be different, isn't that right?

Justification is rendering one righteous. Justify is to make righteous.

The Bible teaches us judicial justification, Abraham believed, and it was accounted to him as righteousness.
It teaches us transformative justification, the one who has died has been justified away from sin.
And it teaches a practical justification,

James 2:21-26 KJV
21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Did Abraham receive "more" righteousness after the offering of Isaac? Had Abraham lost righteousness, and was through his offering "reclaiming" his lost righteousness?

What I'm reading here is that God's imputation of righteousness to Abraham was fulfilled in that Abraham did as God commanded, actually believing Him.

Justify, Making Righteous has one other application also, to make one righteous in the eyes of another person.

You show me your faith without works, and I'll show you my faith by my works. "I'll show you . . ."

Abraham was justified by God for his faith, and the reality of that faith is shown to you by his works. And if this were to be saying that Abraham's justification by faith was subject to revocation had Abraham not obeyed by offering Isaac, and that this is how our salvation works, it would not be in harmony with God's teaching in other books of the NT.

But James is clear about his intent here, "I'll show you by my works", and, here are two examples of this.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Sure, salvation starts of as a belief alone, but it does not remain that way.

Salvation is by grace through faith, so, salvation starts by faith alone, and remains as a gift from God.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

You guys know


a seed in the ground grows.

But you also know for people Jesus said this

The Parable of the Sower

13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

 

[Behold]

we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

That verse says you are justified in the sight of OTHER PEOPLE< by your "WORKS", that prove you dont have "dead faith".

Heretics, who live in Cults, teach your verse to mean that we are justified before God by our works.
However, God never accepts our works, to justify us.
How do you know?
Because Christ died on the Cross to prove it.

 

[Wrangler]

There's a different mindset I'm concerned with. I see The Accuser (through his earthly minions and through the believer's conscience) using 1 John 3:9 to beat the Children. The logical syllogism is brutal: A Child of God cannot do sin. You just sinned; therefore, you are not a Child of God and you're going to Hell (and I'm glad!)

Powerful stuff there, Lambano. This is why I like to refer to many translations. I often prefer the VOICE: Everyone who has been born into God’s family avoids sin as a lifestyle because the genes of God’s children come from God Himself. Therefore, a child of God can’t live a life of persistent sin. (The italics are the editors notes to clarify, not the literal translation)

It puts it in much more reasonable context.

John addresses that in 1 John 1:8-10, 1 John 2:1-2, and 1 John 3:1-2, but then we're told, no, atonement is only for past sins. You can't trust Father to forgive you 70x7 times. No wonder we're so d*** neurotic.

Another very powerful point, Lambano.

I do believe we can trust the Father to forgive us. He wants to and all we have to do is repent. I visualize repenting as facing your Creator. It is a precondition to being saved unless universalism is correct doctrine. No matter if you are the most evil person ever, far from God, or the most pious person ever, so close to God, what matters is what direction are you facing when you die?

If you turn your back to God, he's liable to turn his back to you.

 

[marks]

This is false. Romans 8:1 says

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

Follow it through in the chapter, there is a clear identification of who is being spoken of.

I'm assuming you've gone word by word through this very important chapter? This first handful of verses define and teach us about 2 kinds of people. What is the definition of each, and their characteristics?

Perhaps if you don't want to get that detailed I may start another thread in a while.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There's a different mindset I'm concerned with. I see The Accuser (through his earthly minions and through the believer's conscience) using 1 John 3:9 to beat the Children. The logical syllogism is brutal: A Child of God cannot do sin. You just sinned; therefore, you are not a Child of God and you're going to Hell (and I'm glad!) John addresses that in 1 John 1:8-10, 1 John 2:1-2, and 1 John 3:1-2, but then we're told, no, atonement is only for past sins. You can't trust Father to forgive you 70x7 times. No wonder we're so d*** neurotic.

Hebrews 12:1-2 EMTV

1) So therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every impediment, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2) looking unto Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

God understands about us, and is for us, not against us.

Psalms 103:8-14 KJV
8) The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
9) He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10) He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11) For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12) As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13) Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
14) For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.

Very very much love!

 

[Lambano]

God understands about us, and is for us, not against us.

 

[Wrangler]

"initial salvation" is something you made up., as there is not such thing.

Sure there is! And I’ve demonstrated an example numerous times.

 

[MatthewG]

@Bible Highlighter there is one more thing I would like to mention to you.

As someone who believes they sees the bigger picture of what the afterlife is like.

I personally can be admitting of my own faults, its easy to tell anyone. All of us have faults, and all of us have sinned. Okay so there is that, now a person accepts Jesus, and now a seed is planted with-in them and God gives the increase. Okay, now you have a child of God, and Son or Daughter of God.

If a person in this life, decides to be fully committed to God by their own choice - and they read the Bible, pray, and everything right? They do their best by the spirit to not sin whatsoever though they admit their faults, and obey the commandments to Love God and to Love others.

There are normal resurrected bodies.
There are also a resurrection Body for those who do not want nothing to do with GOd.

Then their is an better resurrection --- this is something Paul strived for.


So for me in this life, when it comes to this topic - about sinning - all us do it, some do it more than others, its not something to be proud of... though to be honest and admit it is a good thing in my opinion especially before God.

That is it... There are 3 types of resurrections, God will gift how he will, and its and individual decision (not merited on governing over others who may choose to believe or see things that are "non-salvation issues").

 

[MatthewG]

People use the Bible to justifiy what they believe.

And not ever one justifies the same way, because of all the differences of views.

Reading, even having faith in God is a subjective personal experience that no one else experiences but you.

You can share, you can tell a person what you know from the Bible and what you understand.

But that other person has freedom to think for themselves and decide, this one of the great reason why Adam and Eve is representative of all mankind.

To make a choice - knowledge of Good and Evil, or the Tree of life.

The GOspel message is simple - once a person believes in that, it is up to them to grow in their relationship and allow the seed to be watered, and mature.

 

[Lambano]

So therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every impediment, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us

This is actually consistent with my position. The Bible exhorts us over and over again to avoid sin, both sins of commission from the flesh and sins of omission from the obligations of loving our neighbors. That cannot be denied. Were I to participate in the poll, I would have chosen "commit sins" as the proper understanding of the passage - but I won't, because I can sense the spirit behind the question.

 

[marks]

This is actually consistent with my position. The Bible exhorts us over and over again to avoid sin, both sins of commission from the flesh and sins of omission from the obligations of loving our neighbors. That cannot be denied. Were I to participate in the poll, I would have chosen "commit sins" as the proper understanding of the passage - but I won't, because I can sense the spirit behind the question.

I realize what is behind the OP, even so, the grammar is present active, which is ongoing action. So "practices" would be closer to the idea than "commits", and "continuously practices" closer still. The unredeemed never stop living out their fleshy life, because that is all they have.

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Salvation is by grace through faith, so, salvation starts by faith alone, and remains as a gift from God.

Much love!

We have access to God’s grace through faith (Romans 5:2). Faith is described as both a belief alone in Hebrews 11:3, and faith is described as in doing what God tells you to do (Hebrews 11:7). Abraham was justified by works in James 2:21 when he offered Isaac upon the altar, but in Hebrews 11:17, it says by faith Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar. It is saying the same thing. The works were a part of his faith. It’s why it’s called the work of faith in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. It’s why there is a word called “faithful” in the Bible. It means to be loyal and or to show one’s allegiance (Which involves obedience and not a belief alone).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Follow it through in the chapter, there is a clear identification of who is being spoken of.

I'm assuming you've gone word by word through this very important chapter? This first handful of verses define and teach us about 2 kinds of people. What is the definition of each, and their characteristics?

Perhaps if you don't want to get that detailed I may start another thread in a while.

Much love!

The reading of the rest of the chapter does not change what Romans 8:1 says. In fact, Romans 8:13 demolishes your thinking here. Romans 8:13 gives the reader (The church in Rome) the decision to either live after the flesh (sin or to being justified by the 613 Laws of Moses alone) or in putting to death (mortify) the deeds of the body (sin) so that they shall live (live eternally).

Romans 8:13 says,
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”

The choice is up to the reader (Which would include us believers today). To say so otherwise means one is seeking to change what Romans 8:13 says (because they don’t like what it says). I have heard Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationists or Sin and Still Be Salvationists come up with all kinds of crazy explanations on not believing verses that speak plainly to us. One Christian guy told me that Galatians 5:19-21 is in reference to how one will not inherit sheep (recruit believers to the faith). That’s how desperate many of you will become. But little do they realize that if they were to just read the Parable of the Sheep and Goats, it explains what “inherit the Kingdom” means. It means to simply enter God’s kingdom according to the Parable. But many in the “Perpetual Belief Alone camp” don’t like that kind of truth. So… they must change the Bible to fit their belief that they want to be true. But God will reveal all things in the end. They cannot escape Him.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We have access to God’s grace through faith (Romans 5:2). Faith is described as both a belief alone in Hebrews 11:3, and faith is described as in doing what God tells you to do (Hebrews 11:7). Abraham was justified by works in James 2:21 when he offered Isaac upon the altar, but in Hebrews 11:17, it says by faith Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar. It is saying the same thing. The works were a part of his faith. It’s why it’s called the work of faith in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. It’s why there is a word called “faithful” in the Bible. It means to be loyal and or to show one’s allegiance (Which involves obedience and not a belief alone).

There are many who don't believe in Jesus any better than the devil does. And they believe they are saved, but going to hell. Those are the ones I try to reach.