"10 Commandments" vs. "The Mosaic Law"

[Pavel Mosko]

Prologue
The Following is part of a Blogging series that I did where I covered a YouTube video put out by "Answering Adventism" that covers probably the most impressive sounding Biblical proof of Seventh Day Adventists. Seventh Day Adventists presuppose a split in what Christians call "The Mosaic Law", where the Decalogue aka "10 Commandments" are split from it. As the video author informs us later in the video "Such a split in the Torah is necessary in order for their theology to work". I will also edit in an extra point of clarity, SDA often speaks of this divide with terms of "Moral Law" for the 10 Commandments, while referring to the rest of the 10 Commandments as "The Ceremonial Law"


Doug Batchelor (a famous contemporary Seventh Day Adventist pastor) makes a "Biblical Case" for the Adventist position in a sermon video based on how the 10 commandments appear in the Bible during the time of Moses where he highlights the 3 facts concerning the Decalogue that they were:
1) Written out by "the finger of God", 2) Were written on stone" rather than just parchment, and 3) "Placed within the Ark of the Covenant rather than held outside of it in a pocket."

* As an editor and Eastern Christian I will note that Seventh Day Adventists failed to notice one more which I would argue for if I actually believed in this claim. Parchment is made from animals' skin but nevertheless could be seen as a typology of "the Sarx" (flesh) and "works of the Flesh".

As a traditionalist Christian I do not believe this claim holds up under scrutiny but is in fact a kind of sleight of hand / sophistry.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Adventism's False Divide 2

1) Nonsensical Contradiction in Deuteronomy 31) The presentation of the Law to Joshua and the Children of just prior to the Death of Moses.


Deuteronomy 31: 7-31
9 So Moses wrote down this law and gave it to the Levitical priests, who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel. 10 Then Moses commanded them: “At the end of every seven years, in the year for canceling debts, during the Festival of Tabernacles, 11 when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God at the place he will choose, you shall read this law before them in their hearing. 12 Assemble the people—men, women and children, and the foreigners residing in your towns—so they can listen and learn to fear the Lord your God and follow carefully all the words of this law. 13 Their children, who do not know this law, must hear it and learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess.”

Myles Christian (Answering Adventism),
"Joshua verse 7. he writes down all of the Pentateuch and gives it to the Levitical priests and the elders. He then gives instructions that it's to be read obeyed and taught to their children. If the book of the law in verse 26 doesn't contain the Ten Commandments that would mean that the people weren't commanded to teach them to their children!! Which is obviously not the case. The same book of the law that is mentioned in verses 24-26 is the same book of the law referenced only a few verses back in 9-13."


* Editors note, other Bible verses would agree concerning "Not adding or subtracting from God's word", "Not removing ancient landmarks etc. The Ten Commandments were always part of the Torah and same law going back to Moses writing Exodus and Deuteronomy during his lifetime.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Adventism's False Divide 3
2) Adventists make a big deal out of "The finger of God" writing the 10 Commandments. This is an idiom talking about "the power of God" doing something, and not that there is a literal human finger writing etc. even though there are a few times where this seems to be true, like the famous "writing on the wall" passage in Daniel) The best proof of this is to look at all passages of the Bible where such an expression or similar idiom is used.

Psalm 8:3
When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,
The moon and the stars, which You have ordained;

Isaiah 48:13
“Surely My hand founded the earth,
And My right hand spread out the heavens;
When I call to them, they stand together.

Isaiah 64:8
But now, O Lord, You are our Father,
We are the clay, and You our potter;
And all of us are the work of Your hand.

Exodus 31:18
When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.

Exodus 24:12
Now the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and remain there, and I will give you the stone tablets with the law and the commandment which I have written for their instruction.”

Exodus 32:16
The tablets were God’s work, and the writing was God’s writing engraved on the tablets.

Exodus 34:1
Now the Lord said to Moses, “Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you shattered.

Daniel 5:5
Suddenly the fingers of a man’s hand emerged and began writing opposite the lampstand on the plaster of the wall of the king’s palace, and the king saw the back of the hand that did the writing.

Daniel 5:24-28
Then the hand was sent from Him and this inscription was written out. “Now this is the inscription that was written out: ‘MENĒ, MENĒ, TEKĒL, UPHARSIN.’ This is the interpretation of the message: ‘MENĒ’—God has numbered your kingdom and put an end to it.read more.

Exodus 8:19
Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, “This is the finger of God.” But Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.

Luke 11:20
But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Psalm 8:3
When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,
The moon and the stars, which You have ordained;

Exodus 8:19
Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, “This is the finger of God.” But Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
If you take note this related to a number of things both permeant and temporary, exorcism and other miracles, besides the creation of the earth.

** I will agree that something special is going on with the finger of God writing the commandments, but rather than setting up an idol of Sabbath keeping this is God highlighting a type of Christ, "the Rock", "the stone the Builders have rejected", "the uncut stone" of the book of Daniel, the stone Jacob rested on when he received his Dream of the latter to Heaven (which itself was a type of Christ).

*** The fact there are two tablets also has Typal significance for the New Testament and the Economy of God as in two witnesses, preaching the Gospel in 2s and a number of other Biblical themes.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Adventism's False Divide 4B)
Point 3) The Commandments are a big deal by virtue of the fact they are written on Stone, compared to parchment. ** I got to assume the big deal is that they are written on a more durable material, this then implies they are intended to last longer etc. (Adventists assume eternally so).


Myles Debunks this in two ways.
1) You simply have to point to the Biblical narrative itself as proof that the 10 commandments are part of the Torah, since they are part of the running narrative of the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy. *** As far as Burden of Proof, Epistemology issues goes Adventists should be the ones to have to actually prove a formal separation in the Decalogue from the rest of the Torah. As far as I can see the only real case you can make is they are the Preamble of the giving of the rest of the law. Later Judaism sees them as the 10 Categories in which the rest of the Mitzvot fits into.


2) The entire law itself was chiseled into stone later on.
Joshua 8
30 Then Joshua built on Mount Ebal an altar to the Lord, the God of Israel, 31 as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded the Israelites. He built it according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses—an altar of uncut stones, on which no iron tool had been used. On it they offered to the Lord burnt offerings and sacrificed fellowship offerings. 32 There, in the presence of the Israelites, Joshua wrote on stones a copy of the law of Moses.



Adventism's False Divide 4A
Point 4 The Mosaic law was from Moses, compared to the 10 Commandments that are from God. *This point will be covered more in the future, because it's very elaborate. I was hoping to initially deal with it by skimming over it, and talking about things like the obvious inspiration of scripture that I know even Adventist believe in. But suffice it to say, the Mosaic law does not just come from Moses but God as well. What makes the Adventist claim confusing is they read an awful lot into Biblical idioms when the Bible idioms phrases like "The Law of Moses". They try to say that it is something different than "The Law of God" used in other passages of the Bible.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Adventism's False Divide 5

5) Adventism claims a separation in the law, and an omission of the ten commandments by virtue of the idioms of Book of the Law, vs. the Book of Moses. The claim is that the Book of Moses is basically the Torah minus the Decalogue. *I suppose this helps to explain that previous point made earlier (the Mosaic law did not just come from Moses).

Myles Christian
"...So when the SDA Church says that what Moses gave was different and separate from what God gave they're wrong. It says the book of The Law of the Lord was given through Moses. The entirety of the law is God's. He simply used Moses as a conduit messenger because the Israelites were fearful of his majesty. This is documented for us in Deuteronomy 5 by the way specifically in verse 27. This is a parallel to Exodus 24. The Israelites were afraid of God's voice so they requested that God speak directly to Moses, who would relay the message back to them. But nevertheless, we also see this same Hebrew phrasing that was used in Deuteronomy 31 regarding the book of the law here in second chronicles throughout this entire chapter the same word is used when speaking of the book of The Law of the Lord and the Book of the Covenant.

These are simply various nomenclatures that the Bible uses to refer to the same thing. It is the entirety of the Pentateuch the first five books of the Bible. The king (Josiah mentioned previously, concerning 2 Chronicles 34) was not cut to the heart over the rebellion of the nation upon someone finding a book that only contained the ritual or ceremonial laws. In it the king made a stand before God 'to seek to walk in uprightness, obeying all of his Commandments testimonies and statutes'. This is all encompassing language for the entirety of the Law."





I'm still Blogging on the False Divide in Adventism on the 10 commandments being separate from the "Law of Moses" as Adventists claim (they need this claim to make their crazy Sabbatarianism work). I'm relistening to Myles and taking down notes. This is an extra bit of proof to reinforce my previous post. Where the Bible in various places implies Moses recorded all the revelation God gave him. As Myles says, "All means all".

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Adventisms False Divide7

6) Saint PAul and Adventist "pioneer" GI Butler disagree with the SDA position

Myles Christian
"...As if this wasn't already clear enough Galatians 3, Moral Precepts in the Book of the Law. Without a shadow of it out says that the book of the law contained moral precepts not just ceremony aspects uniquely given by Moses and not God. In this verse Paul quotes Deuteronomy. Well what do we find in Deuteronomy 27? Curses against Idols, Disobedience to parents, adultery murder, bribery. Capped off with verse 26 which is what Paul quotes in Galatians 3 10 referring to all of this as the book of the law. Thus this book clearly contained moral precepts including the Ten Commandments, not just ceremonial ordinances separate from the Ten Commandments.


In his book, the law in the book of Galatians on page 39 Adventist Pioneer and General Conference president G.I Butler commenting on this specific verse in Galatians even admits this by saying, 'The book of the law which was placed in the side of the ark or at the side of it contained both the moral and ceremonial laws. The language is not cursed be he that continueth not in all things written in the Ten Commandments to do them, as it doubtless would have been had Paul had only the moral law in view, but the curse applied to any and all violations of the ceremonial law as well, for that's what was written in the book".

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Adventisms False Divide 8

7) Adventism needs this false divide to support their offical theology "the Great Controversy" narrative.

Myles Christian
"So even G.I Butler recognized this book contained all of the law not just the supposed ceremonial aspects. There is a plethora of other passages we could look at to confirm this but, I think you get the point. The Adventist Church needs this to be true for their Great Controversy narrative to work. They have to drive a wedge between the Ten Commandments and the rest of the Mosaic law. Saying one is from God and the other
from Moses; because, it's the Ten Commandments that supposedly govern Heaven and the angels. And is what Lucifer supposedly rebelled against and started spreading rumors about in heaven.
Without this, their whole framework collapses."

 

[St. SteVen]

Great topic.
Although I don't think these issues are isolated to Adventism.
Nor do I think Adventists should be attacked so viciously. IMHO

Really, any group that elevates the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses
for Christians to abide by, uses these divisions to make their point,

They have to somehow account for what the Apostle Paul is writing about not being under the law.
Typically adding "the condemnation" to the statement. "Not under the condemnation of the law."

This topic defines my understanding of the law.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Adventism's False Divide 3
2) Adventists make a big deal out of "The finger of God" writing the 10 Commandments. This is an idiom talking about "the power of God" doing something, and not that there is a literal human finger writing etc. even though there are a few times where this seems to be true, like the famous "writing on the wall" passage in Daniel) The best proof of this is to look at all passages of the Bible where such an expression or similar idiom is used.

As I understand it.
Moses broke the set that God wrote with his own finger.
And had to go back up the mountain and write his own set.
If that was the case, then the set in the Ark were NOT written by the finger of God.

--- EDIT ---
Oops. I got that wrong.

The Lord said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them
the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. - Exodus 34:1 NIV

But I think the point they are trying to make is that God wrote the Ten Commandments, NOT Moses.
Which is technically false for the most part. Especially if one tries to divide the TCs from the law of Moses.
Moses didn't make up the laws, he got ALL of them from God as I understand it,

We need to distinguish between "wrote" and "authored".
A scribe writes something down. It does make them the "writer". (author)

Therefore, you cannot divide the law into the TCs and Mosaic law. (as your topic title indicates)
Moses was only the scribe for the Mosaic law, God was the author. Even the TCs were written by Moses. (twice)

/

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Ah I think I forgot a really important post. and it was one that many of the folks in my Facebook group liked a lot.

As I understand it.
Moses broke the set that God wrote with his own finger.
And had to go back up the mountain and write his own set.
If that was the case, then the set in the Ark were NOT written by the finger of God.

But I think the point they are trying to make is that God wrote the Ten Commandments, NOT Moses.
Which is technically false for the most part. Especially if one tries to divide the TCs from the law of Moses.
Moses didn't make up the laws, he got ALL of them from God as I understand it,

We need to distinguish between "wrote" and "authored".
A scribe writes something down. It does make them the "writer". (author)

Therefore, you cannot divide the law into the TCs and Mosaic law. (as your topic title indicates)
Moses was only the scribe for the Mosaic law, God was the author. Even the TCs were written by Moses. (twice)

/

In covering this, I went back and read the texts. God again writes the commandments again, and I believe the whole finger of God thing also was used, I recall reading it a few days back anyway when working on the notes.

 

[marks]

As I understand it.
Moses broke the set that God wrote with his own finger.
And had to go back up the mountain and write his own set.
If that was the case, then the set in the Ark were NOT written by the finger of God.

Exodus 34:1 KJV
And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

Ah I think I forgot a really important post. and it was one that many of the folks in my Facebook group liked a lot.

In covering this, I went back and read the texts. God again writes the commandments again, and I believe the whole finger of God thing also was used, I recall reading it a few days back anyway when working on the notes.

Correct.
I just edited my post above.

/

 

[marks]

God's covenant with Israel was simple, do what God says, and they will be the special nation. What followed was "what God says". You can't select part, and leave the rest.

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

In covering this, I went back and read the texts. God again writes the commandments again, and I believe the whole finger of God thing also was used, I recall reading it a few days back anyway when working on the notes.

Yes.
And the point that Adventists and others try to make is that this separates the TCs from the rest of the law.
As if to say the TCs are the law of God and the rest is the laws of Moses.

Actually the term the Law of Moses is in reference to the BOOKS not the laws themselves.

/

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Great topic.
Although I don't think these issues are isolated to Adventism.

SDA are not alone but there is a lot of gaslighting on the issue by them that is truly unlike other similar groups of the general Judeo-Christian tradition. It is amazing how much things go around, and around, and around when it comes to the topic of Sabbath Keeping. The real reason is very seldom ever addressed, which really comes from areas of "Present Truth" revelation that sets Seventh Day Adventism apart from other groups.



But to get at your point, I also have gotten into a channel against "Torahism" which is basically "Hebrew Roots" and other groups like "Nomian Christians". Torahism is the teaching that Christianity as a whole must follow the Mosaic law or at the very least the Jewish Feasts.

One of the interesting phenomenon's I have seen is how folks that fit Torahism really tend to provide cover for Adventists on the issue. I have a Messianic rabbi friend who is triggered by some of the my apologetics postings even though he believes much differently on many issues than Seventh Day Adventism.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Here is an example of a channel that I also post from on Torahism, mentioned previously. I sometimes post Blog like posts on the Facebook group for Ex-Adventists because I recognize the people there will appreciate the content. I and a few others are not former Adventist though.

 

[BarneyFife]

All any of this proves is that Moses included the Ten Commandments in the book of the law placed in the side of the ark.

So what?

Shouldn't it have been part of the instruction to the children of Israel?

Is there any record of laws regarding Levitical rites, civil statutes, or health practices being written on stone tablets with the finger of God?

Can anyone produce a document of any kind dated from the mid-20th century or earlier claiming that the Ten Commandments are of the same level of authority as all the other laws written in the Pentateuch?

Prominent Adventist speakers make mistakes about how they present Adventist beliefs all the time.

Show me a Christian sect that is immune from this human characteristic.

All of Mosko's voluminous intellectual posturing is not likely to cause a great defection from Adventism, nor stall the increasing number of folks who find agreeable spiritual fellowship therein.

.

 

[marks]

Can anyone produce a document of any kind dated from the mid-20th century or earlier claiming that the Ten Commandments are of the same level of authority as all the other laws written in the Pentateuch?

Romans 5:12-14 KJV
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

There wasn't the Law before Moses.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Romans 5:12-14 KJV
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

There wasn't the Law before Moses.

Much love!

Well, I think you know full well what I was asking for and that you can't produce such a document, but if you want to use THE DOCUMENT OF DOCUMENTS, then making a refutation of your claims is just that much easier:

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 4:15 - New King James Version

because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5:13 - New King James Version

(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 4:7 - New King James Version

If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 39:9 - New King James Version

There is no one greater in this house than I, nor has he kept back anything from me but you, because you are his wife. How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?”

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 26:5 - New King James Version

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 17:10 - New King James Version

This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised;

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 12:3 - New King James Version

And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

www.biblegateway.com

And, finally:

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 7:19 - New King James Version

Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

www.biblegateway.com

At this point I can only assume that no Christians you knew of previous generations had any objections to the idea of a regular weekly time of rest and worship since you keep avoiding the subject in much the same way that virtually all Sabbath objectors avoid the simple questions.

.

 

[marks]

Well, I think you know full well what I was asking for and that you can't produce such a document, but if you want to use THE DOCUMENT OF DOCUMENTS, then making a refutation of your claims is just that much easier:

At this point I can only assume that no Christians you knew of previous generations had any objections to the idea of a regular weekly time of rest and worship since you keep avoiding the subject in much the same way that virtually all Sabbath objectors avoid the simple questions.

Non-Responsive. This passage says a certain thing, and you are not responding to that thing it says.

Can anyone produce a document of any kind dated from the mid-20th century or earlier claiming that the Ten Commandments are of the same level of authority as all the other laws written in the Pentateuch?

James 2:10-12 KJV
10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12) So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

The Law is a single thing, and you either keep it in it's entirety, or you are a law breaker. You can't just carve it up into pieces for your convenience.

Is there a particular one of those passages you've linked to that tells us the 10C are different from the rest of God's Law?

Let me ask you this.

Matthew 5:17-19 KJV
17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

What was Jesus talking about here, the 10 commandments, or the entire Law?

Much love!