"10 Commandments" vs. "The Mosaic Law"

[St. SteVen]

Can anyone produce a document of any kind dated from the mid-20th century or earlier claiming that the Ten Commandments are of the same level of authority as all the other laws written in the Pentateuch?

Great post, thanks.
How do you respond to the topic title question?

"10 Commandments" vs. "The Mosaic Law"​

I certainly see the TCs as a subset of the whole law.
But I agree with you that they stand apart from the rest of the law.
How do you see it?

What is "The Mosaic Law" in your view?
Does it include the TCs? Is it the law of God, or the laws of Moses?

Moses wrote down the law, but who authored it?

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[BarneyFife]

Non-Responsive. This passage says a certain thing, and you are not responding to that thing it says.

James 2:10-12 KJV
10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12) So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

The Law is a single thing, and you either keep it in it's entirety, or you are a law breaker. You can't just carve it up into pieces for your convenience.

Is there a particular one of those passages you've linked to that tells us the 10C are different from the rest of God's Law?

Let me ask you this.

Matthew 5:17-19 KJV
17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

What was Jesus talking about here, the 10 commandments, or the entire Law?

Much love!

For the record, I think He meant the Torah.

But we're no longer communicating in any meaningful way. It is very unpleasant to me.

You are entitled to your abstract view of divine law. I am entitled to disagree.

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[St. SteVen]

For the record, I think He meant the Torah.

I agree.
It was a reference to the BOOKS of the Law, not the laws themselves.
(most readers overlook "or the Prophets") ???

Matthew 5:17 NIV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

COMPARE

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

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[marks]

For the record, I think He meant the Torah.

Which is much more than the 10 commandments, isnt' it?

But we're no longer communicating in any meaningful way.

I suppose you are right.

You are entitled to your abstract view of divine law.

I have no idea what that means. but it sounds like a denigration.

Sigh!

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Seventh Day Adventists presuppose a split in what Christians call "The Mosaic Law", where the Decalogue aka "10 Commandments" are split from it.

Biblical Case" for the Adventist position in a sermon video based on how the 10 commandments appear in the Bible during the time of Moses where he highlights the 3 facts concerning the Decalogue that they were:
1) Written out by "the finger of God", 2) Were written on stone" rather than just parchment, and 3) "Placed within the Ark of the Covenant rather than held outside of it in a pocket."

As a traditionalist Christian I do not believe this claim holds up under scrutiny but is in fact a kind of sleight of hand / sophistry.

I only read the OP. Perhaps you answered my questions is later posts but it seems I am akin to SDA and never knew it. I find it odd for you to deny the cited facts hold up to scrutiny while simultaneously offering no scrutinizing support. I find your thesis lacking sir.

Many times I've heard Pastor's say you cannot just take the 10 Commandments but must take all 613 laws as a truism, never examining the 3 unique set of cited facts regarding the 10 Commandments.

 

[Wrangler]

Adventists make a big deal out of "The finger of God" writing the 10 Commandments.

The big deal is the 10 Commandments are the only part of Scripture that is literally written by God.

Whenever I think if the word "holy" knowing it means set apart, it is hard to conceive of a work more set apart than that! You claim it is a false divide but clearly it is a natural divide ... another thread devoted to bashing a denomination.

Ironically, your work has piqued my curiosity of SDA since my good friend, @BarneyFife and I are one regarding the Sabbath.

 

[Wrangler]

the famous "writing on the wall" passage in Daniel

Is not stated to be the work of Jesus' God. Sad for you to hold 2 unequal things as equal.

 

[Wrangler]

We need to distinguish between "wrote" and "authored".
A scribe writes something down. It does make them the "writer". (author)

Therefore, you cannot divide the law into the TCs and Mosaic law. (as your topic title indicates)
Moses was only the scribe for the Mosaic law, God was the author. Even the TCs were written by Moses. (twice)

I find this nonsensical, a desperate parsing of synonyms.

One may dictate to a scribe but the work is credited to the originator of the content, not who puts pen to paper. It is disparaging to reduce prophets to mere scribes.

I know the OP desires to reduce the most holy work known to a mere idiom. I find it all so blasphemous! And I don't use that term lightly. Sad how some in the body of Christ devote themselves to attacking other denominations. I suspect this is a major league reason unbelievers stay clear of so-called Christians.

 

[BarneyFife]

The big deal is the 10 Commandments are the only part of Scripture that is literally written by God.

Whenever I think if the word "holy" knowing it means set apart, it is hard to conceive of a work more set apart than that! You claim it is a false divide but clearly it is a natural divide ... another thread devoted to bashing a denomination.

Ironically, your work has piqued my curiosity of SDA since my good friend, @BarneyFife and I are one regarding the Sabbath.

That's pretty charitable of you, old chum.

Just be aware that Adventism has its fringe elements and I think it was Socrates who said that no belief system should be judged by its abuse.

(which is what characters like Mosko are all about)


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[BarneyFife]

I knew a guy (in fact he's a regular at the other big forum) who admitted to me on the public part of the forum, no less, that he left the church because his business failed and he actually expected the church to bail him out because of all the tithe and "work" he'd put in.

Not realizing, of course, that he'd just effectively admitted that it was bitterness over financial difficulty that made him give up the Sabbath (and eventually he spiraled into what you could virtually call unbelief).

He's more of an anti-Sabbatarian than a Christian today. (Of course, he won't admit that it's God's blessing in the health emphasis of the church that's contributed more to his robust octogenarian lifestyle than good genetics.)

We see this with so many folks, sadly. Most people just aren't happy unless they have something to war against. And many sympathizes are to be found in postmodern Christianity.


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[Michiah-Imla]

he left the church because his business failed and he actually expected the church to bail him out be cause of all the tithe and "work" he'd put in.

“For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.” (2 Corinthians 8:13-15)

Seems like a reasonable expectation on that man’s part.

The hypocrisy in churches turns many away from it.

Probably for the better if they stick to the Holy Bible. Churches these days are very corrupt.

 

[Wrangler]

more of an anti-Sabbatarian than a Christian today.

So many threads fit this model; more of an anti-X denomination than a Christian today.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

It is ridiculously unreasonable for a local church to be expected to recoup the business losses of its members.

.

Why?

Is he not a beloved brother in your church or not?

Is the very smallest financial help possible (without bankrupting the church) not reasonable?

 

[MatthewG]

I heard that the 10 commandments are actually 10 words.

Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I heard that the 10 commandments are actually 10 words.

That’s just a literal rendering of the Hebrew word translated as “commandment” if I’m not mistaken.

I wouldn’t explore the rabbit hole of the original languages if I were you.

 

[Wrangler]

That's pretty charitable of you, old chum.

Thanks and charity is what is missing from the thread topic. Somebody out there somewhere does not adhere 100% to <whatIknowwith100%certanty> so, I’ll do an inversion of how do I hate thee, let me count the ways + rationalize it as pointing out false doctrine.

No live and let live among this so-called Christian stripe; just TORA-TORA-TORA.

 

[BarneyFife]

Why?

Is he not a beloved brother in your church or not?

Is the very smallest financial help possible (without bankrupting the church) not reasonable?

He was asking for considerably more than "the very smallest financial help possible," which is considerably less than what he got. He was not satisfied.

I have heard of cases of abuse such as you're suggesting even within my own denomination.

Again, is a belief system to be judged by its occasional abuse?

Would you change your beliefs about God and His Word in such a scenario?

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[MatthewG]

That’s just a literal rendering of the Hebrew word translated as “commandment” if I’m not mistaken.

I wouldn’t explore the rabbit hole of the original languages if I were you.

It would just be this.

Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

I also like going to original language.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

He was asking for considerably more than "the very smallest financial help possible,"

Well in that case he’s out of line.

 

[BarneyFife]

Is he not a beloved brother in your church or not?

He lives 600 miles from me, and I knew nothing of his trouble at the time it happened.

I can't police my denomination, as much as it is demanded of me hereabouts.

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