12/21/2012 Jibber Jabber

[crixus]

I find it amazing that so many Christians think that they can predict the actual day when Jesus will return. I hear it and read it all over the place that our Lord and Savior will return on 12/21/2012. Even though the Holy Bible clearly states that nobody knows when the return of Christ will occur, not even Jesus himself. Only God the Father knows the day and hour. Yes, there are signs of the times mentioned in the scriptures and they're happening all around us, and I do believe were living in the last days. But to those following the Mayan calendar, don't believe the hype (that will grow increasingly in the months ahead) and get back in the Word. <><

*And there have been other predictions made throughout the centuries and they've all been wrong so far, and will be in the future. God is in control! B)

 

[HammerStone]

I have to say that's a simple yet good way to put it. This is not the first date, by a long shot, that people have anticipated the return of God. I'd simply remind anyone who does take the Mayan calendar seriously that the Mayans are not even around anymore as a collective group. I joke with folks that maybe they just got tired of counting so they ended the calendar.

As Christians, we have nothing to fear. You will continue to hear it hyped, though. It's amazing how many who profess a belief in God believe this nonsense.

[bible=Matthew 24:23-28]
If anyone tells you then, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'Over here!' do not believe it! False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Take note: I have told you in advance. So if they tell you, 'Look, he's in the wilderness!' don't go out; 'Look, he's in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever the carcass is, there the vultures will gather.[/bible]

The vultures can gather quite quickly.

 

[Duckybill]

Anyone remember this book?

"88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_C._Whisenant

 

[HammerStone]

For some odd reason, that book's outta print!

http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm

It happens a good bit, unfortunately.

 

[tomwebster]

I find it amazing that so many Christians think that they can predict the actual day when Jesus will return. I hear it and read it all over the place that our Lord and Savior will return on 12/21/2012. Even though the Holy Bible clearly states that nobody knows when the return of Christ will occur, not even Jesus himself. Only God the Father knows the day and hour. Yes, there are signs of the times mentioned in the scriptures and they're happening all around us, and I do believe were living in the last days. But to those following the Mayan calendar, don't believe the hype (that will grow increasingly in the months ahead) and get back in the Word. <><

*And there have been other predictions made throughout the centuries and they've all been wrong so far, and will be in the future. God is in control! B)

God also says in His Word:
Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
So has He told us all things or not? Let’s take a look at your verse from Matthew 24:36 to see if we can get a better understanding of it. Pay particular attention to the word “know” in it various verb forms in the text. We will start at verse 32.

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know (G1097) that summer is nigh:

This is the Greek word γινώσκω = ginosko = to know ( by experience, or effort ; to acquire knowledge, become acquainted with; hence, to come or get to know, learn, perceive.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know (G1097) that it is near, even at the doors.
Same word: ginosko

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth (G1492) no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

This is a different word εἴδω = oida = to know (intuitively) without effort, to understand. It is subjective, while ginosko is objective. The word “knoweth” in vs 36 is intuitive knowledge, we can know the information with study. Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.


Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew (ginosko) not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know (oida) not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know (ginosko) this, that if the goodman of the house had known (oida) in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Now, do I believe Christ is returning on 12/21/2011? No, but something will happen on that date we should be aware of. It is mentioned in a number of ancient cultures as an important date. The demons even know this date.

 

[aspen]

For some odd reason, that book's outta print!

http://www.bible.ca/...ate-setters.htm

It happens a good bit, unfortunately.

Yet, "The Late Great Planet Earth" is still in print........

And people still listen to Hal Lindsay even though his false prophecies are in print

 

[Duckybill]

Another author, Mary Stewart Relfe was REAL popular back in the 80's. She wrote a book, "When Your Money Fails" in 1981. She named Anwar Sadat as the AntiChrist. Sadat was assassinated later that same year. The book was entertaining though : )

 

[HammerStone]

I look at knowing Scripture as distinct from knowing a time. We know the events that lead up to it - with the curious mark that all of the wars and rumors of wars will be just the start of things to come. I think one issue is we all try too hard to predict the exam same thing. Take the Middle East right now. Things in some ways are different, but we have to be careful of pointing at this and saying this or that is something specific unless we know it with absolute certainty.

The thing is, we all know we are in the last days by one measure or another. Beyond that, there are things still to come, and when they happen I don't know that there is going to be a whole 'lotta questioning going on for those who know the Word.

I think what εἴδω refers to is that we don't intuitively know - we know of these times by study, but even a strict timeline once these events occur still remains unclear. We have the timelimes of the antichrist floating out there, but there is not full understanding.

Take the thief analogy further. We've had a rash of car break-ins here in my area. The police and citizens anticipate that there will be more thievery, certainly. We know past targets and information discerned from patterns, etc. We don't intuitively know when the thief (thieves) will show up again, but we have collected knowledge on their MO and that they do it at certain time of day and with a certain style.

We cannot say that the thieves will break the window of a car at 3:45 AM on Monday February 28th, 2011. However, we can know the signs (possibly a sound) and have a location on where they like to operate (it's a smaller suburb community) so we know they'll come back to subdivisions.

With the Bible, we have the events. We don't know a specific time, even with study. There are many theories and calculations, but there is a very clear trap for saying God is going to show up here on this time after Satan shows up there at that time. Christ and Paul would not have sounded the alarm if there was a generally accepted date in the Bible.

 

[Disciple]

He could come tonight, but either way; tonight, 12/21, or 2099, Im gonna live everyday as if he was coming that night but serve as if hes coming in a million years

 

[tomwebster]

I look at knowing Scripture as distinct from knowing a time. We know the events that lead up to it - with the curious mark that all of the wars and rumors of wars will be just the start of things to come. I think one issue is we all try too hard to predict the exam same thing. Take the Middle East right now. Things in some ways are different, but we have to be careful of pointing at this and saying this or that is something specific unless we know it with absolute certainty.

The thing is, we all know we are in the last days by one measure or another. Beyond that, there are things still to come, and when they happen I don't know that there is going to be a whole 'lotta questioning going on for those who know the Word.

I think what εἴδω refers to is that we don't intuitively know - we know of these times by study, but even a strict timeline once these events occur still remains unclear. We have the timelimes of the antichrist floating out there, but there is not full understanding.

Take the thief analogy further. We've had a rash of car break-ins here in my area. The police and citizens anticipate that there will be more thievery, certainly. We know past targets and information discerned from patterns, etc. We don't intuitively know when the thief (thieves) will show up again, but we have collected knowledge on their MO and that they do it at certain time of day and with a certain style.

We cannot say that the thieves will break the window of a car at 3:45 AM on Monday February 28th, 2011. However, we can know the signs (possibly a sound) and have a location on where they like to operate (it's a smaller suburb community) so we know they'll come back to subdivisions.

With the Bible, we have the events. We don't know a specific time, even with study. There are many theories and calculations, but there is a very clear trap for saying God is going to show up here on this time after Satan shows up there at that time. Christ and Paul would not have sounded the alarm if there was a generally accepted date in the Bible.

Mat 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time (G2540)?

G2540 καιρός kairos
Of uncertain affinity; an occasion, that is, set or proper time: - X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Compare G5550.

The demons know "their time."

Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

 

[crixus]

God also says in His Word:
Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
So has He told us all things or not? Let’s take a look at your verse from Matthew 24:36 to see if we can get a better understanding of it. Pay particular attention to the word “know” in it various verb forms in the text. We will start at verse 32.

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know (G1097) that summer is nigh:

This is the Greek word γινώσκω = ginosko = to know ( by experience, or effort ; to acquire knowledge, become acquainted with; hence, to come or get to know, learn, perceive.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know (G1097) that it is near, even at the doors.
Same word: ginosko

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth (G1492) no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

This is a different word εἴδω = oida = to know (intuitively) without effort, to understand. It is subjective, while ginosko is objective. The word “knoweth” in vs 36 is intuitive knowledge, we can know the information with study. Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.


Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew (ginosko) not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know (oida) not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know (ginosko) this, that if the goodman of the house had known (oida) in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Now, do I believe Christ is returning on 12/21/2011? No, but something will happen on that date we should be aware of. It is mentioned in a number of ancient cultures as an important date. The demons even know this date.

I think you mean 12/21/2012, not 2011. Personally, I don't trust in what any ancient cultures mentioned or in what any living person is now saying. As a Christian, the Bible is the only source that I will ever need. And God's word say's that no one knows when, not even Jesus. God is in control! B)

 

[tomwebster]

I think you mean 12/21/2012, not 2011. Personally, I don't trust in what any ancient cultures mentioned or in what any living person is now saying. As a Christian, the Bible is the only source that I will ever need. And God's word say's that no one knows when, not even Jesus. God is in control! B)

Yes, I meant 2012. Yes, God is in control and we need to hear what He tells us. I can only tell you what the Scripture says and what I know to be true, it's up to you to hear. 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[crixus]

I look at knowing Scripture as distinct from knowing a time. We know the events that lead up to it - with the curious mark that all of the wars and rumors of wars will be just the start of things to come. I think one issue is we all try too hard to predict the exam same thing. Take the Middle East right now. Things in some ways are different, but we have to be careful of pointing at this and saying this or that is something specific unless we know it with absolute certainty.

The thing is, we all know we are in the last days by one measure or another. Beyond that, there are things still to come, and when they happen I don't know that there is going to be a whole 'lotta questioning going on for those who know the Word.

I think what εἴδω refers to is that we don't intuitively know - we know of these times by study, but even a strict timeline once these events occur still remains unclear. We have the timelimes of the antichrist floating out there, but there is not full understanding.

Take the thief analogy further. We've had a rash of car break-ins here in my area. The police and citizens anticipate that there will be more thievery, certainly. We know past targets and information discerned from patterns, etc. We don't intuitively know when the thief (thieves) will show up again, but we have collected knowledge on their MO and that they do it at certain time of day and with a certain style.

We cannot say that the thieves will break the window of a car at 3:45 AM on Monday February 28th, 2011. However, we can know the signs (possibly a sound) and have a location on where they like to operate (it's a smaller suburb community) so we know they'll come back to subdivisions.

With the Bible, we have the events. We don't know a specific time, even with study. There are many theories and calculations, but there is a very clear trap for saying God is going to show up here on this time after Satan shows up there at that time. Christ and Paul would not have sounded the alarm if there was a generally accepted date in the Bible.

Right on HammerStone. It's good to know that I'm not the only one who doesn't think they know more than God the Father. I'm reminded of that line in Revelation that say's (I'm paraphrasing) that were not to add or take anything away from the scriptures. I heard that Harold Camping has come up with yet another date, I think it's supposed to be later on this year. He was obviously wrong on his other two predictions in year's past. Maybe the third time is the charm?

 

[aspen]

Gosh, I thought it was all going to be over on May 21, 2011!

Guess, I shouldn't have given away my house.......

 

[[email protected]]

Anyone remember this book?

"88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_C._Whisenant

Yea, baby! My pastor at that time bought up a whole bunch of those pamphlets and distributed them to the church.
To his credit, he later apologized for his actions.

Sometimes a man gets caught up in the heat of the moment. It is for us as brethern to gently point out his insanity.

Gosh, I thought it was all going to be over on May 21, 2011!

Guess, I shouldn't have given away my house.......

What? Now it's May?
I thought it was December 21, 2012?

My wife's birthday is 12/21/2012.

If I forget that date.....it REALLY WILL be the end of the world !!!!

Now, do I believe Christ is returning on 12/21/2011? No, but something will happen on that date we should be aware of. It is mentioned in a number of ancient cultures as an important date. The demons even know this date.

Of course the demons know the date. Everybody has been blabbing about it such that its now become a trap to many. A trap which demons will happily use to their advantage.

That demons know a thing is not important. That we LIVE as though Christ were coming back today IS.

As to the involvement of ancient cultures, the reference to 12/21/2012 is the end of the cyclic period of the Mayan calendar. That calendar is based on agricultural necessity (when to plant crops, when to harvest, etc.). As such it is cyclical, like the seasons of the year and the orbit of the planets and Earth about the sun. The Mayan calendar rotates to a new cycle on 12/21/2012 in the same way that our Gregorian calendar rotates to a new year on 12/31/12.

There is no mystery about what happens on the twenty first or on the thirty first, unless you get so drunk that night that you can't remember.