Hidden in plain sight: Why I believe this about the Revelation

[Spiritual Israelite]

1 John 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was revealed: to destroy the works of the devil.

The wages of sin is death. The works of the devil is sin and it leads to death:

Hebrews 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, he likewise shared in their humanity, so that through death he could destroy the one who holds the power of death (that is, the devil),

Christ's death and resurrection destroyed the power of the devil - forever and ever.

Your argument conflates Satan's ability to deceive the nations with his works of sin, and the death which results from sin.

Revelation 20:3 talks only about his deception of the nations when it speaks about him being bound and unable to deceive the nations. It's not talking about his power of death or the works that John is talking about and linking to sin:

1 John 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was revealed: to destroy the works of the devil.

If it was talking about his deception of the nations and his being bound, then Christ's undoing of the works of Satan (sin and death) would be undone by Satan being released again.

Being turned from darkness to light is related to Satan's deception of the nations and the fact that the gospel will open the eyes of those who will hear, repent and believe. Some do, some don't - and Satan's deception of the nations continues till today.

Even were he bound in this regard as you say, it would mean that Christ's undoing of his works would be undone when he is released again.

But we clearly don't see it the same way. You conflate the two, I don't. So we'll just keep talking past one another.

Thanks for sharing your view. It seems impossible for us to have a good discussion about this because, like you said, we'll just keep talking past each other since we don't even fully understand what the other believes. That's fine. There's just not likely anything we can do about that.

 

[Zao is life]

Thanks for sharing your view. It seems impossible for us to have a good discussion about this because, like you said, we'll just keep talking past each other since we don't even fully understand what the other believes. That's fine. There's just not likely anything we can do about that.

My mind is

and your mind is

Subject

LOL.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What you are not factoring is that he does not stay bound all the way up unto being cast into the LOF.

I didn't say that he will be. Where are you getting that from what I said? I think we may need to follow Zao is life's lead here and realize that when we try to talk about Satan's binding we just talk past each other. You clearly do not understand what I believe, so there's no point in trying to discuss it any further. But, I'll keep reading the rest of this post and we'll see if whatever you said can change my mind about whether we should keep talking about this or agree to disagree on it like Zao is life and I have done.

he is loosed a little season first.

Of course. Where did I say otherwise? I have very little interest in talking about this with you if you're just going to misrepresent what I believe. But, let's see if you continue doing that in the rest of your post.

The point being, if everything you brought up applies to his binding, what does all of that mean when he is no longer bound? It has to mean the opposite of all those things you said it means when he is bound. Otherwise, there is zero difference between being bound and being loosed.

Right.

Thus his binding is meaningless if all the things you brought are also applicable in the same manner when he is loosed.

Agree.

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

What does that mean when he is loosed after the thousand years? Make it clear to us what it means once he is loosed.

It means that it will be much more difficult, if not impossible, to cast out demons at that point.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If that is what his thousand year binding accomplishes, what does it then mean when he is loosed after the thousand years? Make it clear to us what it means once he is loosed.

You're awfully demanding here, but I'll tell you, anyway. BTW, I'm wondering why you didn't give your understanding of what "the works of the devil" are? Can you do that?

In order to explain what that means when he is loosed, we have to know what it means for Him to destroy the works of the devil. Which means we have determine what "the works of the devil" are.

This passage gives some insight into that...

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

In Old Testament times, the devil "had the power of death". He was able to use that power to keep people in "bondage" to the "fear of death". This was especially true of the the Gentiles who, for the most part had "no hope" and were "without God in the world" in those times (Ephesians 2:11-12). But, as Paul said, "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." (Eph 2:13).

By way of His death, Jesus took the power of death away from Satan. It seems that Premills don't think about the significance of that. After that, He then held "the keys of hell and of death" (Rev 1:18). Many after that have been set free from the fear of death that gave them no hope of anything after death by the hope of eternal life that the blood of Christ provides. Satan needed to be bound and have the power of death taken away from him in order for this to happen.

So, what about when Satan is loosed then? It means, for a short time, he is allowed to again have the power of death and go into the world and largely silence the preaching of the gospel by way of persecuting believers and also drowning out the gospel message by many different false religions, cults, philosophies, etc.

I believe Satan's little season after he is loosed correlates with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:9-13 in terms of a time when persecution, apostasy, deception and wickedness would be significantly increased. Paul talked about that same time period in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 where he also talked about a time of increased apostasy, deception and wickedness that would all be "after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (2 Thess 2:9).

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

If that is what his thousand year binding accomplishes, what does it then mean when he is loosed after the thousand years? Make it clear to us what it means once he is loosed.

I addressed that one above since I believe it helps explain what 1 John 3:8 is about in terms of what the "works of the devil" were that are destroyed because of what Jesus made possible by His death.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My mind is

and your mind is

Subject

LOL.

LOL. Closed to each other on this particular topic, anyway. Not other topics. I assume. LOL.

 

[Zao is life]

LOL. Closed to each other on this particular topic, anyway. Not other topics. I assume. LOL.

No we agree on other things and say the the same things when arguing against JW's when they attempt to post JW doctrine surreptitiously in other boards, etc.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No we agree on other things and say the the same things when arguing against JW's when they attempt to post JW doctrine surreptitiously in other boards, etc.

Right. And we agree that Jesus died and rose again and is our Lord and Savior. You know, minor things like that.

And we agree on things like that the all Israel that is saved and will be saved is the spiritual Israel of God as well. You are one of the few here who agrees with my interpretation of Romans 11. Which also means I'm one of the few who agrees with your interpretation of it. I appreciate that we agree on that. And we're both post-trib. I think. I assume you are. I can't imagine that you're pre-trib. No chance of that. And we probably agree on other things that we don't even realize that we agree on as well.

 

[Zao is life]

Right. And we agree that Jesus died and rose again and is our Lord and Savior. You know, minor things like that.

And we agree on things like that the all Israel that is saved and will be saved is the spiritual Israel of God as well. You are one of the few here who agrees with my interpretation of Romans 11. Which also means I'm one of the few who agrees with your interpretation of it. I appreciate that we agree on that. And we're both post-trib. I think. I assume you are. I can't imagine that you're pre-trib. No chance of that. And we probably agree on other things that we don't even realize that we agree on as well.

I'm Post-Trib. And like the guy who you call "my buddy @Davidpt " (who does not agree with me on a good few things, and can become just as angry at my refusal to budge on certain things), I don't fit all that neatly into the Premil category, either.

And as you can see from my view of Romans 11 I'm obviously not a "let's agree to DISPENSE with the true Israel of God in favor of a non-elect who have been broken off" SENSATIONALIST (a Dispensationalist), either.

So I don't fit into any box. I'm not a box-ist. I'm a scriptural -ist.