1st problem with O.S.A.S.

[theefaith]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

why is baptism mentioned?

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.


God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!

 

[GEN2REV]

It's a certainty, an assurance, a done deal, salvation. We are saved, not if we do this or that, then maybe. ... Salvation is a promise. If you believe in Jesus you are saved. It is not a future event.

If that were true, the Bible would be a much shorter book.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If that were true, the Bible would be a much shorter book.

Yes.

It would end at John 3:16.

 

[theefaith]

Jn 3:16 includes baptism

as usual Protestantism is mentally ill, we have hope of future salvation/ we are saved now!

Faith alone / but that faith is not alone

mental illness

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

purgatory is part of Gods providence both mercy and justice

the children of Israel in bondage is a type of purgatory
Just as the promised land is a type of heaven

No, Catholics say Purgatory is a place you go after death to purge sins until you can be purified to enter heaven. Where is that in scripture? You can't imply that they meant it figuratively.
[The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030).]

 

[GEN2REV]

Yes.

It would end at John 3:16.

I read a great article where they laid out, point-by-point, how 'if it were possible at all for God to repeal the 10 Commandments, there would never have been any need for Jesus' Crucifixion.' It was ultra convincing, even for the most stubborn of doubters.

Since the Commandments cannot be repealed, because God spoke them aloud in this world (just as He so powerfully created all that is), and because He wrote them in stone with His own divine finger (among other reasons), that means that not only are they still valid after Christ's sacrifice, but that OSAS is ... impossible.

 

[amigo de christo]

No. A guarantee is an assuredness TO receive salvation.

OSAS ~ means ONCE salvation IS received that salvation can not be Lost.

Salvation is a Gift.
Once a person receives the Gift, that Gift can not become removed.

It’s a parallel to marriage, joining together.
Earthly men and women, “practice” being joined together.
Men and women, meet, learn about one another, make decisions if they want to be joined, commit only to one another, Stay together, or in some cases renege on their Commitment, leave one another.

It’s a preparation, trial run so to speak, for hearing about the Heavenly God, learning Gods Wants to be Joined with each person, deciding if they want to be joined with the Heavenly God, declaring a commitment TO the Heavenly God...

(And the Heavenly God searches their hearts IF their declaration BE TRUE.....and IF ‘heartfully’ True)
Once and Forever, that individual and God become adjoined.

(And IF their declaration BE A heartful confessed Lie....they have LIED To God...and no adjoining occurs or shall ever occur).

(And IF their declaration BE NOT from the Heart....no adjoining occurs).

* Once adjoined WITH God, there is no leaving, reneging.
* The adjoining IS FOREVER and KEPT FOREVER BY the POWER of God. Ie OSAS.

Taken i noticed you put the IF in big letters . Proving a point . So how come folks OMIT the IFS in the bible .
Just a question that seriously needs to be addressed . For IF we are a lamb WHY would be omit the truth
in said bible . IF makes A BIG POINT as you well put out there . SO when paul says IF
How come folks omit or try and change what follows THE SPIRITUAL INSPIRED IFS . Just think about that for a bit .
Be encouraged my friend . Here is a IF from Christ . I have called you friends , IF you DO what so ever i command you .
I think we better pay attention to thos IFS . Be encouraged .

 

[theefaith]

No, Catholics say Purgatory is a place you go after death to purge sins until you can be purified to enter heaven. Where is that in scripture? You can't imply that they meant it figuratively.
[The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030).]

Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.

This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen and St. Ambrose, who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecc 12:14)

St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of his City of God, chapter 25, interprets this as purgatory. The preceding verse refers to the saved (“called holy” and “recorded for life”) and verses 5 and 6 describe the repose of the blessed.

Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39)

St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.

Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.

Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.

2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)

The Jews offered atonement and prayer for their deceased brethren, who had clearly violated Mosaic Law. Such a practice presupposes purgatory, since those in heaven wouldn’t need any help, and those in hell are beyond it.

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.

St. Francis de Sales commented:

It is only the third sort of offence which is punished with hell; therefore in the judgment of God after this life there are other pains which are not eternal or infernal, — these are the pains of Purgatory. (The Catholic Controversy translated by Henry B. Mackey, Rockford, Illinois: TAN Books, 1989 [orig. 1596], 373)

Matthew 5:26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

The “prison” alluded to in verse 25 is purgatory, according to Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Origen, St. Ambrose, and St. Jerome, while the “penny” represents the most minor sins that one commits.

Matthew 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there are others which can be, and this must be in purgatory: precisely the interpretation of St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory the Great, the Venerable Bede, and St. Bernard, among others.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


This is a clear and obvious allusion to purgatory. Thus thought St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, Pope St. Gregory the Great, Origen, and St. Augustine, who wrote with his usual insight:

ecause it is said, he shall be saved, that fire is thought lightly of. For all that, though we should be saved by fire, yet will that fire be more grievous than anything that man can suffer in this life whatsoever. (Expositions on the Psalms, 38, 2)

Hebrews 12:14 Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (cf. 12:1, 5-11, 15, 23, Eph 5:5; 1 Thess 4:3; 1 Jn 3:2-3)

Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman observed (as an Anglican):

Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . . There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man labouring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, . . . (Sermon on this verse: “Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness,” 1834)

Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

The abundance of scriptural evidence for purgatory led to a consensus among the Church fathers: summarized by Protestant church historian Philip Schaff:

These views of the middle state in connection with prayers for the dead show a strong tendency to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. (History of the Christian Church, vol. 2, “Ante-Nicene Christianity: A. D. 100-325,” 5th edition, New York: 1889; ch. 12, sec. 156, 604-606)

Indulgences are graces merited by the passion and blood of Christ.

They have nothing to do with sin or salvation, (mercy) upon true repentance but the punishment due to sin. (Justice)

Example
A father may forgive (mercy) his son for hitting a ball thru the window, but the son will have work and pay for the window. (Justice)

 

[atpollard]

“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Where did I say any such thing?
Where did anyone say any such thing?

What does “Sola fide” really mean (when taken in context)?

Now for a non-rhetorical question to ponder: When in Acts 2 did God “draw” (John 6:44) them to Christ, ensuring they would be raised on the last day?
[It was BEFORE baptism, in my opinion.]

 

[mailmandan]

purgatory is part of Gods providence both mercy and justice

the children of Israel in bondage is a type of purgatory
Just as the promised land is a type of heaven

Purgatory is a false doctrine and it denies the sufficiency of Christ's atonement for sin on the cross. As Mike Gendron explains: Purgatory is a travesty on the justice of God and a disgraceful fabrication that robs Christ Jesus of His glory and honor. He alone satisfied divine justice, once and for all, by the perfect and finished sacrifice of Himself. The fatal deception of Purgatory blinds Catholics from the glorious Gospel of grace. It is one of Satan's many lies which keep his captives from knowing and trusting the sufficiency of Jesus Christ. It is Christ alone that will present us "faultless before the presence of his glory" (Jude 24).

Purgatory: Purifying Fire or Fatal Fable - Rapture Forums

 

[mailmandan]

hope for salvation?
What happened to faith alone???

If we have saving faith in Christ then we have hope. Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. It's not about I have faith, but I don't have enough hope so I won't be saved. So it's still salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Philippians 3:9 etc..). Your faith and hope is in works and purgatory for salvation and is not in Christ alone.

 

[RedFan]

Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.

Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.

I need some help here with regard to Irenaeus. Can you point to the passage you have in mind?

I saw this exact claim a few years back, in a blog by Dave Armstrong which you seem to have lifted word for word. I challenged the claim then. I do so again. After studying his writings, particularly "Against Heresies," I have concluded that Irenaeus offered no such interpretation -- but I'm willing to be educated.

 

[mailmandan]

then baptism is meaningless?

Just because baptism is not what saves us does not mean that baptism is meaningless. There are a handful of verses in the Bible that works-salvationists try to use as proof texts to prove that water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, yet a careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation. Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture. Baptism put it in it's proper place, subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all rites and works must be.

Effects of faith & baptism!

Typical brain washed Roman Catholic.

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit

No mention of the word baptism here.

Jn 3:5 born again in baptism

If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. Notice that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. Jesus associates this water with everlasting life in John 4:14 and living water is not water baptism. Also, the word "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5) *So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism

See post #218.

Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism

Acts 8:36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” Acts 20:31 - The eunuch was already saved when he believed before receiving water baptism. Acts 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin

Baptism is the emblem of the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ. Every time a believer is water baptized he washes away his sins in the same SENSE Paul did: not literally, but ceremonially, pointing to the blood of Christ by which sins are actually washed away. (1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5) Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Rom 6:3 died with Christ

Water baptism is the picture and Spirit baptism is the reality.

Col 2:12 risen with Christ

Water baptism is the picture and Spirit baptism is the reality.

1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church

This is referring to Spirit baptism and not water baptism. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ

Water baptism is the picture and Spirit baptism is the reality. Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Period.) Not through faith and water baptism. Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Putting on a judge's robe does not, in itself, make anyone a "judge." But, one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on "judicial robes" and thus declare their qualifications. So too with being water baptized, the Christian puts on robes for which they has previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ is not what makes one become a Christian, but one which becomes a token of it, as in Romans 13:14. If one sets out to put on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

2 Tim 1:10 brought to life

This is brought about through the gospel and not through water baptism. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

2 cor 5:17 new creation

Only born again believers are in Christ and are a new creation in Christ. Plain ordinary H20 cannot accomplish this.

Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit

Those who believe the gospel are sealed by the Holy Spirit. No mention of baptism.

Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism

..made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved) through faith, not works. Ephesians 2:5-9. No mention of baptism here.

CONTINUED..

 

[mailmandan]

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Even though there are baptism(s) plural, in Matthew 3:11 we read - I baptize you with 1. water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the 2. Holy Spirit and 3. fire. *There is only ONE baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. You need to quit fighting the truth!

Eph 5:26 faith and baptism

Washing of water by the word and not by water baptism. The word "water" here is used as an emblem of the word of God, in which it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26)

Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration

Baptismal regeneration is heresy. The washing of regeneration refers to spiritual washing/purification of the soul that is accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the word of God at the moment of salvation.

1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood

Christ's blood is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin.

1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light

1 Peter 2:9 - ..called out of darkness into his marvelous light. Acts 26:18 - To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. No mention of baptism.

1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

1 Peter 3:21 - Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!

Faith in works, purgatory and the Roman Catholic church accomplishes nothing! Faith IN CHRIST ALONE accomplishes everything. The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; 2 Timothy 3:15; Philippians 3:9; 1 John 5:13 etc..). You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus baptism? Plus works? NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Paul uses hyperbole about understanding all mysteries and all knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having no love. Paul is not exaggerating about the importance of love though. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith "plus love." Paul is stressing that love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after the "evidence of things not seen" are now seen (Hebrews 11:1) once we are in the presence of the Lord and we are no longer looking for the "blessed hope" (expectation of what is sure) and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13) because He has appeared and believers will be with Him forever, love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth.. So again, Paul is not teaching that we are saved by faith "plus acts of love/works." All genuine BELIEVERS love Christ. Why? Because we have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).

Faith and baptism!

Faith IN CHRIST ALONE!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Scripture has a lot to say about salvation through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE. (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; 2 Timothy 3:15; Philippians 3:9; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

No need to answer your redundant questions. This is sufficient enough to refute your false claims and clear up your misinterpretation of scripture. Prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I was also confused (just like you) and there is a reason for that. *See 1 Corinthians 2:11-14 and 2 Corinthians 4:3,4.* I hope and pray that one day you will finally come to repent and believe the gospel.

 

[theefaith]

our participation is required

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

(his grace and virtues work in us healing our defective nature and enabling us to be righteous and holy accomplishing his holy will!
Ez 36:25-27)

 

[theefaith]

our participation is required

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, (his grace and virtues work in us healing our defective nature and enabling us to be righteous and holy accomplishing his holy will!
Ez 36:25-27

 

[theefaith]

Where did I say any such thing?
Where did anyone say any such thing?

What does “Sola fide” really mean (when taken in context)?

Now for a non-rhetorical question to ponder: When in Acts 2 did God “draw” (John 6:44) them to Christ, ensuring they would be raised on the last day?
[It was BEFORE baptism, in my opinion.]

drawn 1st
Then instructed Lk 1:4
Then believe
Then sealed in baptism!

the promise of the father from ez 36:25

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

 

[theefaith]

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!

Psalm 51 (baptism)
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(Thru faith and the sacraments!)










God provides for everything:
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is the way we must follow!
He is the truth we must believe!
He is the life, life of grace thru the sacraments of the church in which we must live!

Abide in Christ and His church with grace and life provided by God thru the sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[atpollard]

drawn 1st
Then instructed Lk 1:4
Then believe
Then sealed in baptism!

the promise of the father from ez 36:25

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

So which is it?

You present an order that places "draw" and "instruct" and "believe" BEFORE "baptism" ... and then perform baptisms on infants that CLEARLY have not been "instructed" (and offer no indication of having been "drawn" or "believing").

If one of the crowd that was "pierced" in their heart in Acts 2 and heard Peter's message in Acts 2 and repented as commanded in Acts 2 was killed by a runaway cart on his way to be baptized ... would he remain damned or would he have died saved on his way to proclaim what God had done?
[The answer is the difference between a Catholic and a Baptist ... no Baptist believes that he NEEDS any purgatory to forgive anything ... Sola Fide ... his FAITH in Jesus was sufficient to save him: John 3:18 ... because GOD did all the heavy lifting: Ephesians 2:1-10].

 

[theefaith]

Purgatory is a false doctrine and it denies the sufficiency of Christ's atonement for sin on the cross. As Mike Gendron explains: Purgatory is a travesty on the justice of God and a disgraceful fabrication that robs Christ Jesus of His glory and honor. He alone satisfied divine justice, once and for all, by the perfect and finished sacrifice of Himself. The fatal deception of Purgatory blinds Catholics from the glorious Gospel of grace. It is one of Satan's many lies which keep his captives from knowing and trusting the sufficiency of Jesus Christ. It is Christ alone that will present us "faultless before the presence of his glory" (Jude 24).

Purgatory: Purifying Fire or Fatal Fable - Rapture Forums

no it is the grace of God obtained by the sacrifice of Christ

we are not fully restored in this life to the state we had before the fall, we must participate and suffer for Christ’s sake Phil 1:29 and do penance