1st problem with O.S.A.S.

[Michiah-Imla]

You mean your biased interpretation of those scriptures.

I accept the scriptures as written.

You explain them away.

And I am the one biased?

Such madness!

 

[mailmandan]

then you’re saved by baptism?

No. We are saved by faith in Christ. Not by faith in baptism or faith in other works.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I can see that you have no interest in 1 John 1:8-10

Your bias blinds you to the plain teaching of this passage because once you believe a lie all scripture must be forced to agree with that lie.

 

[mailmandan]

Your bias blinds you to the plain teaching of this passage because once you believe a lie all scripture must be forced to agree with that lie.

I accept the scriptures as written.

You explain them away.

And I am the one biased?

Such madness!

Oh the irony!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Oh the irony!

I can post scripture WITHOUT commentary to expose your false doctrine.

You on the other hand need to post a lengthy dissertation to explain away problem passages.

Oh the irony indeed!

 

[GEN2REV]

Rude.

No, he knows exactly why I'm calling him that. And it's not rude at all.

And childish.

Only if you want people to believe that your Avatar is NOT from the 161st episode of Seinfeld that is titled "The Junk Mail."

But since you do know that to be true, as I just pointed that out to you very recently, you are aware that I'm not being rude by referring to the origin of your Avatar that you've been using for around a decade now.

If you are a fan of Seinfeld, enough to use his image as your Avatar, it is very likely that you were aware of this fact. If not, now you know why you will continue to be called JunkMailDan.

See? Everybody gets a Trophy!!

 

[mailmandan]

I can post scripture WITHOUT commentary to expose your false doctrine.

You on the other hand need to post a lengthy dissertation to explain away problem passages.

Oh the irony indeed!

I did not need to post commentary but thought it may be helpful. Iron sharpens iron and it still beats your misinterpretation of scripture which results in heresy. *Keep in mind that Satan quoted scripture to Jesus (with a twist) so you can post scripture all day long but that doesn't mean you properly interpret scripture.

 

[mailmandan]

No, he knows exactly why I'm calling him that. And it's not rude at all.Only if you want people to believe that your Avatar is NOT from the 161st episode of Seinfeld that is titled "The Junk Mail."

But since you do know that to be true, as I just pointed that out to you very recently, you are aware that I'm not being rude by referring to the origin of your Avatar that you've been using for around a decade now.

If you are a fan of Seinfeld, enough to use his image as your Avatar, it is very likely that you were aware of this fact. If not, now you know why you will continue to be called JunkMailDan.

See? Everybody gets a Trophy!!

How old are you? 11? 12?

 

[mailmandan]

You on the other hand need to post a lengthy dissertation to explain away problem passages.

Oh the irony indeed!

Unlike you, I properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. No problem.

 

[GEN2REV]

How old are you? 11? 12?

Lol.

I act old for my age.

 

[theefaith]

Ephesians 2:1-10 disagree with you.
Salvation grows from the root of faith and yields the fruit of good works … with God 100% in charge from first to last.
We just supply the “dead”.

As my Lutheran friend is fond of saying … “I am saved by works, but it is not MY works that saved me, it is the works of Jesus Christ”.

“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is not found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

 

[theefaith]

It is not salvation by faith alone. It is salvation by the grace of God alone by faith alone in Christ alone. Plus nothing. (Ephesians 2:8-10).

not what scripture says


If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

Five Solas or Protestant dogmas!

Faith alone

Christ alone

Grace alone

Bible alone

Glory to God alone

Protestantism is unbiblical!

Faith alone! That means faith alone! Period!
No sacraments ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-38 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21
No obedience of faith rom 16:26
No repentance Lk 3:3
No suffering Mk 8:34 Mk 10:21 Phil 1:29
No hope rom 8:24
No charity 1 cor 13:2 1 cor 13:13
No love of God duet. 6:5
Prayer matt 7:7
No grace Jn 1:16-17
No patience Heb 10:36
No nothing but faith alone!
Alone means alone!

Rom 8: 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Three things are eternal (and therefore inseparable) faith, hope, & charity, and the greatest of these is charity! 1 cor 13

And never “faith alone”!

Rev. 2 I know thy works! I thought faith alone is all that mattered?

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

How can salvation be by faith alone in Christ alone thru grace alone?

Faith alone?

1 cor 13:2 and 13:13, Phil 1:29, James 2:24 Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 oppose faith alone!

1 cor 13:2 “all faith” without charity avails nothing, nada!

“Faith alone” is heresy!
Hersey is treason against God!



Christ alone?

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Not Christ alone must also believe on the Father who sent Christ!

Grace alone?

Mk 16:16 faith and baptism!
Jn 3:5 water and the spirit! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 the promise of the father, sacred oath is a sacrament!

Not grace alone but, grace thru baptism of water and the spirit, and a new heart full of love of God!

Matt 5:7 merciful receive mercy
Lk 7:47 forgiven by love
1 pet 4:8 charity covers sins
Jn 20:21-23 sins forgiven

Acts 22:15 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Jn 3:5 and Titus 3:5 born again refers to baptismal regeneration

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!


Paul never taught justification by “faith alone”!

Did not Paul write these scriptures?

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Three things are eternal (and therefore inseparable) faith, hope, & charity, and the greatest of these is charity! 1 cor 13:13

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Other scriptures opposing “faith alone”

Matt 5:7 mercy thru merciful
Lk 7:47 forgiven by love
1 pet 4:8 charity covers sins
Jn 20:21-23 sins forgiven

 

[theefaith]

Oh please, Do you not know what faith is? You use it to identify yourself with, "Theefaith".
Hebrews 11:1 tells you. It is a certainty of what Jesus promised, salvation, if you believe in Him. Aren't you sure of this faith, a gift, not earned?


These are all identification qualities of the Elect possess, faith, perseverance, hope, a message to all beginners ... "You are in Christ, you have power ... this is what you are made of ... you will endure to the end... And for those who don't, they are not His. It is encouragement as well, with reminders that we need to obey - of course. You become a Christian and you don't know what to expect, it's a journey, but we will prevail BECAUSE HE IS THE AUTHOR OF OUR FAITH AND IT IS NOT SOMETHING WE CAN REWRITE.




The Bible is a manual, informing us of the path that we must follow, by faith and so these are all warnings and to abide in Him. As children we need this kind of disciplinary teaching. "If you don't clean up your room, do your homework, and do as you are told, Disneyland is off the table!" This keeps them in line. We know we will take them, but they need this sort of "if you don't" lessons. Kids get spoiled, right if they think everything is to be handed to them on a silver platter. They need to be responsible. But in the end, as parents, we love them and know that we will not forsake them.



More teaching on the qualities of a Christian that we gradually learn along the way.
A Christian > is responsible - they support their family.
> does what Christ says to do, this is abiding in Him
> holds onto his faith in confidence
> endures to the end

Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians and a stern message was also given Hebrews who were not converts. The word of God was given to them and if they did not believe in Christ, then they would die in their sins.
The Bible is filled with warnings for non-Christians of what will happen to them. These scriptures are not for us believers. But faith is weak in some and so they need discipline and chastisement, but it is temporal, for God chastises those He loves.

hope for salvation?
What happened to faith alone???

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There it is!!! He answered "YES." Finally!

John tells us all we need to know about him then..

He thinks he is better than John himself.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You mean your biased interpretation of those scriptures. I can see that you have no interest in 1 John 1:8-10. Pride and self righteousness are a fatal combination!

don't forget, He ignored James word about confessing our sins to one another.. James failed to get the message that we would not have sins to confess..

 

[theefaith]

No. We are saved by faith in Christ. Not by faith in baptism or faith in other works.

Mk 16:16

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

hope for salvation?
What happened to faith alone???

It's a certainty, an assurance, a done deal, salvation. We are saved, not if we do this or that, then maybe. And then the idea of Purgatory makes Christ's sacrifice insufficient. A works salvation is a disgrace. Grace is not based on Christ's sacrifice plus our works, it is freely given. Salvation is a promise. If you believe in Jesus you are saved. It is not a future event.
EPHESIANS 2:8-9

 

[mailmandan]

Mk 16:16

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[theefaith]

It's a certainty, an assurance, a done deal, salvation. We are saved, not if we do this or that, then maybe. And then the idea of Purgatory makes Christ's sacrifice insufficient. A works salvation is a disgrace. Grace is not based on Christ's sacrifice plus our works, it is freely given. Salvation is a promise. If you believe in Jesus you are saved. It is not a future event.
EPHESIANS 2:8-9

purgatory is part of Gods providence both mercy and justice

the children of Israel in bondage is a type of purgatory
Just as the promised land is a type of heaven

 

[theefaith]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

then baptism is meaningless?


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!






“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is not found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2