1Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[Angelina]

No, the rapture is from the Bible, and the Apostle Paul. Of course it is not a "thing". That is why Satan has deceived a lot, because they make it a "thing". People want to talk about beliefs a lot. That is so they can be catagorized and viewed any way the winds blow. I am not surprised. It has been going on since the 1st century.

Knowing the truth comes from the Bible. It is not in doctrine, theology, nor human interpretation. The reason Jesus preached we needed to be prepared, is because the majority of the church is not prepared. They cannot even agree on what the Bible says about the last few years on earth, before the Second Coming.

Rapture is a theology that man his taken from the bible and decided that they were going to be taken away before the tribulation hits the world. It is a belief but there are only a small amount of christians who believe in it.

Take a look around the world. There are thousands of christians dying for their belief in Jesus who are being martyred. They are christians, some new, some more mature believers. What makes Americans different than these believers around the world? Did Jesus get taken up before he was martyred? what about the apostles? Think!

 

[Timtofly]

Rapture is a theology that man his taken from the bible and decided that they were going to be taken away before the tribulation hits the world. It is a belief but there are only a small amount of christians who believe in it.

Take a look around the world. There are thousands of christians dying for their belief in Jesus who are being martyred. They are christians, some new, some more mature believers. What makes Americans different than these believers around the world? Did Jesus get taken up before he was martyred? what about the apostles? Think!

The rapture is not a theology. The fact that you describe called a theology is just a smokescreen to deceive the church. What does living and dying have to do with it? The rapture has nothing to do with escape. In fact, the dead in Christ, those just martyred, will rise first. The rapture is the 5th and 6th seal of Revelation 6. The tribulation is in 3 different sections. Each section of the trib, gets their own harvest type. The church harvest event is the rapture. At the end of the Trumpets it is the tares and wheat nation of Israel harvest. It is plain in black and white in the Word of God.

I doubt it is an American thing though. People throughout the world, in every language with God's Word knows the difference between Paul's and John's rapture, and this so called escape clause. Leave that notion in the movies where it belongs.

 

[Angelina]

The rapture is not a theology. The fact that you describe called a theology is just a smokescreen to deceive the church. What does living and dying have to do with it? The rapture has nothing to do with escape. In fact, the dead in Christ, those just martyred, will rise first. The rapture is the 5th and 6th seal of Revelation 6. The tribulation is in 3 different sections. Each section of the trib, gets their own harvest type. The church harvest event is the rapture. At the end of the Trumpets it is the tares and wheat nation of Israel harvest. It is plain in black and white in the Word of God.

I doubt it is an American thing though. People throughout the world, in every language with God's Word knows the difference between Paul's and John's rapture, and this so called escape clause. Leave that notion in the movies where it belongs.

The Rapture is a belief/ doctrine. Everything in the bible is a belief or doctrine. If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, then you are correct. In christian society this is called Soteriology and considered a doctrine/theory. Check out the rest of the world. The Rapture doctrine started in [Ireland] and it accepted in the States, is not something the rest of the world believes in....This is where the Rapture originated. I have it underlined

"Those who hold to the early nineteenth century theory maintain that since there
are no primary source references to the Rapture of the Church in any of the Patristic
Writings, or throughout the entire Middle Ages for that matter, then the Rapture of the
Church is only a recent development from the outer edge of orthodoxy of the Church;
which came into prominence during the rise of Dispensationalism (see “Definition of
Terms”) around the year 1830. Those who promoted this belief in the Rapture at that time
were Edward Irving, a Scottish minister who translated the Jesuit Manuel de Lacunza’s,
The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty (under the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben
Ezra) from Spanish into English in 1826; Margaret MacDonald, a young Scottish girl
who saw a vision of the Rapture in Scotland in 1830; and John Nelson Darby, an
Anglican priest from Ireland, who espoused it as a doctrine and with the help of
Benjamin Wills Newton formed a new denomination called the Plymouth Brethren in the
1830’s."

This excerpt was taken from an thesis by David K. Hebert. Oral Robert University. Called The Rapture of The Church: A Doctrine of the Early Church or a Recent Development of the Dispensational Movement? May 2006. page 3-4

Please read...

John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism.

Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[1] and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.[2]

 

[Timtofly]

The Rapture is a belief/ doctrine. Everything in the bible is a belief or doctrine. If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, then you are correct. In christian society this is called Soteriology and considered a doctrine/theory. Check out the rest of the world. The Rapture doctrine started in [Ireland] and it accepted in the States, is not something the rest of the world believes in....This is where the Rapture originated. I have it underlined

"Those who hold to the early nineteenth century theory maintain that since there
are no primary source references to the Rapture of the Church in any of the Patristic
Writings, or throughout the entire Middle Ages for that matter, then the Rapture of the
Church is only a recent development from the outer edge of orthodoxy of the Church;
which came into prominence during the rise of Dispensationalism (see “Definition of
Terms”) around the year 1830. Those who promoted this belief in the Rapture at that time
were Edward Irving, a Scottish minister who translated the Jesuit Manuel de Lacunza’s,
The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty (under the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben
Ezra) from Spanish into English in 1826; Margaret MacDonald, a young Scottish girl
who saw a vision of the Rapture in Scotland in 1830; and John Nelson Darby, an
Anglican priest from Ireland, who espoused it as a doctrine and with the help of
Benjamin Wills Newton formed a new denomination called the Plymouth Brethren in the
1830’s."

This excerpt was taken from an thesis by David K. Hebert. Oral Robert University. Called The Rapture of The Church: A Doctrine of the Early Church or a Recent Development of the Dispensational Movement? May 2006. page 3-4

Please read...

Why do you exchange God’s Word for a human explanation?

It is called accepting God’s Word by trusting what God says. Trusting in humanity ends in failure. You pointed out the failure of human interpretation. I did read it.

 

[Angelina]

Why do you exchange God’s Word for a human explanation?

Why do you live under a rock?

John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism.

Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[1] and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.[2]

This theology is not something that the early Fathers taught nor does it appear until the 1830s....This doctrine is made by a man's belief in what the bible is saying, not what God is saying...

 

[Timtofly]

Why do you trust humans?

The rock I live under is Jesus Christ.

 

[Angelina]

Why do you trust humans?

The rock I live under is Jesus Christ.

Well it is actually you who trust humans. Darby is not God. He is a man and his 1830 Rapture theology, which you believe, is a false doctrine?

You have not learned this by reading your bible. You have learned this through the teachings of your church because your church has adopted this doctrine...

 

[Timtofly]

Well it is actually you who trust humans. Darby is not God. He is a man and his 1830 Rapture theology, which you believe, is a false doctrine?

Since you did not show any human teaching the Word of God, no, I am not trusting them. You know more about them than I do, yet deny that you are in a way trusting them.

Nope, it is God’s Word that proves otherwise, not me. Try finding something in God’s Word to indicate at least you are not trusting humans to make a point.

 

[Angelina]

Since you did not show any human teaching the Word of God, no, I am not trusting them. You know more about them than I do, yet deny that you are in a way trusting them.

Nope, it is God’s Word that proves otherwise, not me. Try finding something in God’s Word to indicate at least you are not trusting humans to make a point.

NO I don't trust them at all because they are just humans who for some unknown reason think that God is going to slip american christians off the earth while other christians around the world are dying for their faith. You go for it brother or sister!

 

[Angelina]

I personally lean toward the post trib view.
Out of the 2.2 billion Christians in the world today, only about 15% believe in the event that is called the “Rapture”. Of those 330 million (the 15%), approx 94% believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture; that is, they believe that the Rapture will take place before the seven-year Great Tribulation and the time of the Antichrist.
The remaining 6% [approx 20 million Christians worldwide] hold to a Mid-Trib, Pre-Wrath, or Post-Tribulation view.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I personally lean toward the post trib view.
Out of the 2.2 billion Christians in the world today, only about 15% believe in the event that is called the “Rapture”. Of those 330 million (the 15%), approx 94% believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture; that is, they believe that the Rapture will take place before the seven-year Great Tribulation and the time of the Antichrist.
The remaining 6% [approx 20 million Christians worldwide] hold to a Mid-Trib, Pre-Wrath, or Post-Tribulation view.

I grew up in the pre-trib rapture doctrine and one day the Holy Spirit told me that is a false doctrine....and He began taking me through scripture and showed me that we will be here during the tribulation....in fact there have been many tribulations already that man has suffered...but they were just the beginning of sorrows....time is measured differently in prophesy than in everyday life.

 

[Angelina]

I grew up in the pre-trib rapture doctrine and one day the Holy Spirit told me that is a false doctrine....and He began taking me through scripture and showed me that we will be here during the tribulation....in fact there have been many tribulations already that man has suffered...but they were just the beginning of sorrows....time is measured differently in prophesy than in everyday life.

Finally, the voice of reason. There are so many of our people [Christians] suffering right now across the world because of their belief in Jesus. I agree that their will always be tribulations in our time all the way through to the great tribulation which I personally believe, we will not see in our lifetime. Perhaps our children, grand children or great grand children may see it. IDK God Knows

 

[Timtofly]

God says it is now, and we are going through it. But it seems no one thinks it is good news, or rational to think it will all be over in less than 3 years. I guess most can prepare after it is all over, since that is what they believe.

 

[Angelina]

God says it is now, and we are going through it. But it seems no one thinks it is good news, or rational to think it will all be over in less than 3 years. I guess most can prepare after it is all over, since that is what they believe.

Let's chat again in three years time and see if you are still here you can apologise then...

 

[Timtofly]

Let's chat again in three years time and see if you are still here you can apologise then...

Ok, then it will be this:
"fire comes out of their mouth and consumes their enemies — yes, if anyone tries to harm them, that is how he must die."

 

[Angelina]

Ok, then it will be this:
"fire comes out of their mouth and consumes their enemies — yes, if anyone tries to harm them, that is how he must die."

Why are you quoting Revelation 11:5 re: the two witnesses? why do you think that has to do with the Rapture?

 

[Heart2Soul]

God says it is now, and we are going through it. But it seems no one thinks it is good news, or rational to think it will all be over in less than 3 years. I guess most can prepare after it is all over, since that is what they believe.

Well, first of all we are promised a time of restoration and refreshing...part of that restoration is to establish His Church again as it was in the times of the Apostles....this includes the scripture in Ephesians that says the gifts are for the perfecting of the saints....until we all....UNTIL WE ALL ....come into the unity of faith.
Ephesians 4 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹¹ And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; ¹² For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

¹³ Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: (I think it's pretty obvious we are still divided in our understanding of His Truth)

¹⁴ That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; ¹⁵ But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: ¹⁶ From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The Great Awakening has to take place as well....so.much to be done first.
Do.you see all.churches becoming unified in next 3 years?

 

[Giuliano]

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep(have died), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep (have died) in Jesus will God ""bring with him.""

1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep (have died).

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore ""comfort one another with these words.""

Who are the "we" in this passage, the Thessalonians or us?

Did it happen or did all the Thessalonians die without it happening? I say it happened just as Paul promised. He was not comforting the Thessalonians with false promises. And yes, you too can be caught up to meet Jesus in the air. If you are, you will be forever with him. So what if your physical body is "left behind"?

 

[Timtofly]

Well, first of all we are promised a time of restoration and refreshing...part of that restoration is to establish His Church again as it was in the times of the Apostles....this includes the scripture in Ephesians that says the gifts are for the perfecting of the saints....until we all....UNTIL WE ALL ....come into the unity of faith.
Ephesians 4 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹¹ And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; ¹² For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

¹³ Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: (I think it's pretty obvious we are still divided in our understanding of His Truth)

¹⁴ That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; ¹⁵ But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: ¹⁶ From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The Great Awakening has to take place as well....so.much to be done first.
Do.you see all.churches becoming unified in next 3 years?

By unified, do you mean all shut down by the government? They all are in the same boat, or were. That the gospel is going out, is not a group thing. It must be an individual, person by person thing. World wide revival is spread like covid19. It is from personal contact. For that to happen, each person must repent of their sin. Then the Lamb of God, and the power of the Holy Spirit can go from person to person. It is not from church building to church building, nor denomination to denomination. It is individual to individuals.

 

[Timtofly]

Why are you quoting Revelation 11:5 re: the two witnesses? why do you think that has to do with the Rapture?

That will be my apology. I will have failed in convincing the body of Christ to be prepared. It is not a "beam me up scotty" event. It is the end of the church's responsibility to turn the hearts of the lost from the cares of this world to Christ. If you wait for 3 years, looking for the return of Christ, you will be looking for something else.