Hi Nancy, thanks for joining the conversation.I agree with what you say. I think it will be the biggest scorched earth happening ever!
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Hi Nancy, thanks for joining the conversation.I agree with what you say. I think it will be the biggest scorched earth happening ever!
Hi Nancy, Would you print out my attachment from post #27 and tell me if the Zephaniah reference of the day of the Lord is a scorched earth or total elimination of the planet?I agree with what you say. I think it will be the biggest scorched earth happening ever!
Excellent video. Time, eternity - His time, our time. No, He is not at all slack, He want's all to come to Him until the last one who will come comes...hmmm, lol. I see His timing (day/1000 yrs.) as an awesome loving act!Hi all,
I just finished my latest video, which was inspired by my discussion with folks on the thread concerning Amillennialism. I want to thank all those who stuck with me and helped me understand the topic better.
Here is a link to the video.
Title: The Big Whoosh 2Peter 3:10
Opening line: Today we are going to examine 2 Peter chapter 3. Peter will mention the Day of the Lord and the Second Coming of Christ, but his main point is focused on the believer's standpoint with regard to the total destruction of the heavens and the earth, or what I am calling the “Big Whoosh” based on Peter's remark that the heavens and earth will pass away with a roar.
I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think.
@WPM @Spiritual Israelite @Timtofly @Truth7t7 @covenantee @Randy Kluth @jeffweeder @Marty fox @Charlie24 @stunnedbygrace @The Light
Thank you. Yes. That's my view - the part I highlighted at the bottom of your post above. We are already a new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15) and we have already come unto Mount Zion (Hebrews 12:22). Paul speaks about the creation eagerly waiting to be delivered from the bondage of corruption (Romans 8:19-23) and also teaches that this body that dies becomes the seed of a body, spiritual that it will be (1 Corinthians 15:34-46).First of all, I didn't mean to exclude anyone with my list. I'm glad you felt free to respond and join the conversation.
I would say, no, we should not ignore what the words mean in other contexts as we interpret and understand what Peter wrote. But we must strive to understand what Peter meant to say. Peter's second epistle should be understood the way Peter meant it to be understood.
I strongly agree with your two approaches to the task: 1) take into account what came before and what comes after the text under examination. Ideas tend to flow like a river. The text under review is like a bridge and interpreters are standing on that bridge. In order to fully comprehend the text, the interpreter considers both the flow upstream and the flow down stream of the bridge. 2) examine how words are used in other contexts.
I think both of these tasks are important to fully understanding the text. So no, I don't think we should ignore how the words are used elsewhere. But, and I also think this is important. I never discount the idea that the Biblical author might use a word in a novel way. Again, I want to know how Peter is using the word in the immediate context, and if I suspect that the other meanings don't seem to fit, then I am open to a novel meaning.
I can't address your entire post, but I will share with you a point that I seriously considered, which you might find helpful in your own studies. The Greek word translated "world" is κόσμος, which refers to any ordered system.
Given this, let's look at a passage you already mentioned. Galatians 4:3
4:1 Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, 2 but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. 3 So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
We see from this example that τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου is rendered "the elemental things of the world" but Paul's subject matter isn't the world. He isn't talking about the elements of this physical world, or even the fundamental things of the current culture or political structure. The subject matter in this context is the Law, and the fact that the Jewish people were held under the law as a guardian. Jesus was born of a women, born under the law, that he might redeem those who were under the law. In my opinion then, the τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου refers to the elementary principles of the Jewish legal system. The Jewish people were under bondage to the rudiments of the Jewish praxis. I think Colossians and Hebrews are also talking about the rudiments of the Jewish law.
As I studied 2 Peter 3, I seriously considered, but finally rejected this meaning. I don't think Peter is talking about the rudiments of the Jewish praxis. During my studies I was thinking about what a new earth might look like. Is it going to be a brand new planet, is it going to be a refreshed and restored planet or is it going to be the same planet but freed from idolatry and impurity (two issues that came between God and his people) I haven't fully answered that question for myself yet. But regardless of what a new earth might look like, I think Peter's essential point remains the same. Downplay the transitory and focus on the eternal.
A devastation and depopulation of the Middle East as described in Zephaniah 1:1-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Psalms 83, +, will affect all the world.I also believe that the prophets speak about a time of destruction, which is relegated to Judea, not the entire world. Joel for example.
Hi Nancy, Would you print out my attachment from post #27 and tell me if the Zephaniah reference of the day of the Lord is a scorched earth or total elimination of the planet?
Sorry, if that is how it came across. I don't believe it's a "single" or short period of time. I will try to review what I wrote and explain why it is not. In a brief nutshell, the DOTL equates to the "day of Christ" when the Father places all enemies under Christ's feet... when HE sends the Son to rule in the midst of his enemies, Psalm 110. As 1Co 15:25 states, HE (God) must reign until, until, until he places all authority into Christ's hands.Okay, thanks for helping me understand your view better. I was wondering why you think that Peter's wording necessarily indicates that the day of the Lord is a single day of judgment, ruling out the possibility that judgment comes at the end of a longer period of time?
Nice video.Hi all,
I just finished my latest video, which was inspired by my discussion with folks on the thread concerning Amillennialism. I want to thank all those who stuck with me and helped me understand the topic better.
Here is a link to the video.
Title: The Big Whoosh 2Peter 3:10
Opening line: Today we are going to examine 2 Peter chapter 3. Peter will mention the Day of the Lord and the Second Coming of Christ, but his main point is focused on the believer's standpoint with regard to the total destruction of the heavens and the earth, or what I am calling the “Big Whoosh” based on Peter's remark that the heavens and earth will pass away with a roar.
I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think.
@WPM @Spiritual Israelite @Timtofly @Truth7t7 @covenantee @Randy Kluth @jeffweeder @Marty fox @Charlie24 @stunnedbygrace @The Light
It actually is kind of an essential point, though. Just sayin'.Now, why did you bring this up?
It seems so out of place and a complete non-sequitur.
This really deserves its own thread, but here is the essential point I want to make here.
You, and others, wield the doctrine like a cudgel and use it to derail threads.
Look how effective it is. Simply mention the doctrine and all of a sudden you have permission to ignore anything else I might say here, in this thread.
The question on the table, here, is whether or not I have properly explicated what Peter meant to say.
Again, thanks for watching the video, and I appreciate all comments, even those who disagree with me. So keep posting and don't give up.
It is common knowledge, and sense, that it means it will be completely unexpected; it will creep up on the world.the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night, which means that his coming is indeterminate.
When Peter says "the lord is not slack concerning his promise", it is following on the heels of him talking about how a day is like a thousand years, and then continues by saying that God is not willing that any should perish. In essence he is saying that the DOTL is a protracted time of showing mercy. The DOTL is not simply punishment for the wicked but it is also a time of reward for the righteous. I think that many get lost in the idea that it is just a time to punish the wicked. But Jesus is coming to judge the secrets of men's hearts... [do you love me?] will be a question that we all must answer and that answer is manifest in the deeds we do and why we do them. It is on the easy side of things to to identify those who are unashamed to say they either love or hate Jesus, aka cold or hot. Those who are lukewarm will be spewed out of Jesus's mouth. They have a relationship with Jesus but fence straddling will end with Jesus in charge.Sorry, if that is how it came across. I don't believe it's a "single" or short period of time. I will try to review what I wrote and explain why it is not. In a brief nutshell, the DOTL equates to the "day of Christ" when the Father places all enemies under Christ's feet... when HE sends the Son to rule in the midst of his enemies, Psalm 110. As 1Co 15:25 states, HE (God) must reign until, until, until he places all authority into Christ's hands.
Be Blessed
The PuP
Jesus Destroys "All" The Wicked, Not Some But "All" When He Is Revealed, Read It Again And Again!Jesus refers to the run-up to the day of the Lord, which is filled with fire, smoke, and destruction. This situation is NOT the big whoosh, which takes place at the end of the world, but another destruction which is centered in the Middle east.
Jesus Destroys "All" The Wicked, Not Some But "All" When He Is Revealed, Read It Again And Again!
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Doesn't Revelation say that the Trumpets will affect a third of the world?A devastation and depopulation of the Middle East as described in Zephaniah 1:1-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Psalms 83, +, will affect all the world.
Do not make the mistake that the forthcoming great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, won't affect everyone, worldwide. It will and the world wil never be the same again.
Thanks, this is helpful.Sorry, if that is how it came across. I don't believe it's a "single" or short period of time. I will try to review what I wrote and explain why it is not. In a brief nutshell, the DOTL equates to the "day of Christ" when the Father places all enemies under Christ's feet... when HE sends the Son to rule in the midst of his enemies, Psalm 110. As 1Co 15:25 states, HE (God) must reign until, until, until he places all authority into Christ's hands.
Be Blessed
The PuP
I don't agree with the dichotomy you propose. The rhetorical question intends to convey neither one of the meanings you propose. The actual intent of the question proposes that a particular interpretation of this passage fails to make sense of the passage or convey what Peter actually meant to convey. The question is not meant to convey distrust in what Peter actually said.Nice video.
Hate to be a Debbie Downer, but you haven't made a video yet that aligns with the Bible accurately.
You say to Jesus Christ "Why come back at all? Why not just stay in Heaven and destroy the earth from there?"
Who do you think you are to speak to/of the Lord God that way? Seriously, where is your reverence?
If God's Word says that He will destroy the earth upon Jesus' return, how can the clay ask the Potter why He would do such a silly thing?
Isaiah 13:9-11 specifically states that the sun and moon will be darkened and the stars will fall from heaven just exactly as Matthew 24:29-31 does. Those events line up perfectly; and the Matthew passage speaks specifically of this being Jesus' Second Advent. NOT 1,000 years later.
1 Corinthians 15:23-24 very .... clearly .... states that when Jesus returns, .... that is THE END.
Now, you either know all of this eschatology and still choose to teach a different message than the Bible, OR you do not know the Bible at all.
Either of which would make you unfit to be teaching God's Truth to the world.
Somebody's gotta say it. Guess it'll have to be me.
I don't agree. What you propose would only make sense if I had belief-authority over those who watch the video. I don't have that kind of authority. Those who watch the video are under no obligation to believe what I say. There is no grand inquisitor that will come to your house and beat the crap out of you if you don't confess my teaching.It actually is kind of an essential point, though. Just sayin'.
If you're not really a Christian, you have no business making videos aimed at Christians under the guise of teaching Scripture.
Makes profound sense.
Don't ya think?
For the sake of this thread, I am going to ignore your personal attack* on me and answer the original question.It is common knowledge, and sense, that it means it will be completely unexpected; it will creep up on the world.
Does that sound like a thousand year event to you?
What is unexpected and catching anybody off guard about a thousand year event?
Whatever organization, church or whatever, that has you so confident in your positions on things is about as corrupt as it could possibly be. You are prideful in your disregard for God's Word, but He laughs at your pride.
Those who disregard plain Scripture, no matter their numbers, or organization, are like dust in the wind. The vast majority of big name pastors and preachers in the spotlight today are utterly corrupt in their teaching, and explanations, of God's Word.
Humble yourself, pray for forgiveness and study the Bible on your own for a few years, paying very close attention to exactly what it says.
Jesus is talking about the coming of the Son of Man, which is a technical term which derives meaning from 2 Samuel 7, Psalm 8 and Daniel 7. Consider Daniel 7:26-27Jesus Destroys "All" The Wicked, Not Some But "All" When He Is Revealed, Read It Again And Again!
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luke 17:29-30KJVAnd was that a global destruction or some cities? You always misuse that verse when anyone that knows the story will know it is not a global killing.