2 Thess 2:3 -- apostasia

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Marcus O'Reillius

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If you worship the beast, or take the mark - you will not be part of the wedding feast of the Lamb and His Church.

OSAS fails when it falls on the point of that Biblical fact.
 

ATP

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
If you worship the beast, or take the mark - you will not be part of the wedding feast of the Lamb and His Church.

OSAS fails when it falls on the point of that Biblical fact.
John 6:47
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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That's right, but that presumes we are faithful until the end and that we do as commanded and don't worship the beast nor take his mark.

I'm telling you flat out, there will be foolish so-called christians who worship the beast and/or take his mark and they will be very, very surprised when they do suffer God's Wrath. But when they do they will not be part of the Elect. The Elect will be in Heaven, and they will not suffer God's Wrath.
 

ATP

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
That's right, but that presumes we are faithful until the end and that we do as commanded and don't worship the beast nor take his mark.
1 Cor 1:8-9 NIV, 2 Tim 2:13, 2 Tim 4:18 NIV, Jude 1:24-25 NIV.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Those presume an ongoing belief.

And what's more, that belief has to be backed up by obedience.

And if you take the mark of the beast, or worship the beast, it doesn't matter how many verses you can recite; you're going to suffer God's Wrath, spend your afterlife in a hot, dry place in agony - only to be summoned to Judgment and placed on the left side of Jesus and sent to Hell.
 

ATP

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
Those presume an ongoing belief.

And what's more, that belief has to be backed up by obedience.

And if you take the mark of the beast, or worship the beast, it doesn't matter how many verses you can recite; you're going to suffer God's Wrath, spend your afterlife in a hot, dry place in agony - only to be summoned to Judgment and placed on the left side of Jesus and sent to Hell.
Justification and believing only comes once Marcus Rom 10:9-10.

A born again believer does not turn back to atheism.

We are sealed until redemption Eph 4:30.
 

mjrhealth

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OSAS fails when it falls on the point of that Biblical fact.
It only fails because christians donmt believe God can save them. If God says you are saved, it is because he can see that in the distant future you are, if He was to say that you are and you didnt make it, that would make Him a lair, would it not?? So when it says

Joh_10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Doesnt say might be, or could be does it.

When you believe Him and see as He sees, it all becomes so much easier.

In all His Love
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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The Greek present tense denotes an ongoing, continuous belief.

IF you believe, you are justified through Christ, and shall be saved - contingent again not only upon that belief, but by obedience to God's Commands - which demonstrates that belief through your works.

A faith without works is dead.

And no one else can take that away from you - Satan cannot wrench you out of Jesus' Love.

But if you turn away - and do evil - your lack of faith is manifest not only to God but to all. And no justification exists for a seemingly righteous man who does evil.

If you take the mark of the beast - no matter how well you mouth the words that you believe Jesus will save you - you are bound for Hell.

Read the story of the five foolish virgins who "bought" "oil" as a literal statement too of what happens when you take the mark during the time of the Great Tribulation. They were shut out of Heaven.
 

ATP

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
The Greek present tense denotes an ongoing, continuous belief.

IF you believe, you are justified through Christ, and shall be saved - contingent again not only upon that belief, but by obedience to God's Commands - which demonstrates that belief through your works.

A faith without works is dead.

And no one else can take that away from you - Satan cannot wrench you out of Jesus' Love.

But if you turn away - and do evil - your lack of faith is manifest not only to God but to all. And no justification exists for a seemingly righteous man who does evil.

If you take the mark of the beast - no matter how well you mouth the words that you believe Jesus will save you - you are bound for Hell.

Read the story of the five foolish virgins who "bought" "oil" as a literal statement too of what happens when you take the mark during the time of the Great Tribulation. They were shut out of Heaven.
But isn't the lake of fire the second death Rev 20:14? :unsure:

Not even death can separate us from God...Rom 8:33-39 ESV says neither..trouble, hardship, persecution, famine, nakedness, danger or sword, death nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation....will be able to separate the elect from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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As long as you believe and obey.

You may not blaspheme the Holy Spirit -
You may not worship the talking image of the anti-Christ when it is erected -
You may not take the mark of the beast after the abomination is revealed -
--- and have eternal life.

Those works show that you do not have a true faith, a faith that results in those promises coming true.

The Biblical fact is that doing any previously listed sins negates all the good works you think you've done and shows that whatever faith you think you have is merely a delusion.
 

ATP

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
As long as you believe and obey.

You may not blaspheme the Holy Spirit -
You may not worship the talking image of the anti-Christ when it is erected -
You may not take the mark of the beast after the abomination is revealed -
--- and have eternal life.

Those works show that you do not have a true faith, a faith that results in those promises coming true.

The Biblical fact is that doing any previously listed sins negates all the good works you think you've done and shows that whatever faith you think you have is merely a delusion.
But death is death. Neither death nor life will separate us Rom 8:38. Why are you depending on your filthy works to keep you saved..

Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10-11 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 1 Tim 4:10 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV
 

ATP

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God's "seed" is imperishable and will be with us forever...

1 Pet 1:23 NIV For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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ATP said:
Why are you depending on your filthy works to keep you saved..
Faith without works is dead.

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder.

You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Okay ATP, read those books from which the last two posts came from and tell me how you're going to make it on faith because you came to believe in an instant, but didn't change your life - and continue every day to increase that faith by putting it into practice.

Because I'm telling you, there will come a day when your faith will be tested and you will have to choose; worship or die. And if you try to save your life - despite ALL the Bible verses you can muster for those who remain in the faith - you will lose your life for all eternity.

OSAS? It falls when it fails on the hard tip of this verse:

"If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb."
 

ATP

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
But it's impossible to keep the law every single minute of the day Marcus. That is why His Grace and Blood covers us. If Jesus didn't die for future sins then He lied to everyone...

Rom 4:7-8 NIV “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

Rom 6:10 NIV The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

2 Cor 5:18-20 NIV All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

Col 2:13-15 NIV When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Heb 7:23-25 NIV Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Heb 7:27 NIV Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

Heb 9:12 NIV He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

Heb 9:24-28 NIV For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Heb 10:10-14 NIV And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

1 Pet 3:18 NIV For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.