2 Thess 2:3 -- apostasia

[Marcus O'Reillius]

You can do all that but if you worship the beast, you will not enter Heaven and your faith is dead; manifest by your failure to trust God to save you when you tried to save yourself. And so you will lose it for all eternity.

Rev 14:9-11 means OSAS is false.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Double post. Oops.

 

[ATP]

Okay ATP, read those books from which the last two posts came from and tell me how you're going to make it on faith because you came to believe in an instant, but didn't change your life - and continue every day to increase that faith by putting it into practice.

Because I'm telling you, there will come a day when your faith will be tested and you will have to choose; worship or die. And if you try to save your life - despite ALL the Bible verses you can muster for those who remain in the faith - you will lose your life for all eternity.

OSAS? It falls when it fails on the hard tip of this verse:

"If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb."

I depend on Grace, not works to keep me until redemption Eph 4:30. As should all.

 

[ATP]

You can do all that but if you worship the beast, you will not enter Heaven and your faith is dead; manifest by your failure to trust God to save you when you tried to save yourself. And so you will lose your life for all eternity.

Rev 14:9-11 means OSAS is false.

If that is true then God is contradictory and a liar. Could it be that nonbelievers without the blood of Christ take the mark.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Great. And you worship the talking image of the anti-Christ and it's all moot - fini - worthless.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

If that is true then God is contradictory and a liar. Could it be that nonbelievers without the blood of Christ take the mark.

Nope. Jesus said it.

1 "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 "At midnight the cry rang out:'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him! '
7 "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out. '
9 "'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves. '
10 "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 "Later the others also came. 'Lord, Lord,' they said, 'open the door for us! '
12 "But he replied, 'Truly I tell you, I don't know you. '
13 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Those five foolish "virgins" were Christians.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

If that is true then God is contradictory and a liar. Could it be that nonbelievers without the blood of Christ take the mark.

Nope.

Jesus said it:

Mt 16:25 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.

If you try to save your life by worshiping the abomination, you will lose your soul for all eternity.

 

[ATP]

Nope. Jesus said it.

1 "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 "At midnight the cry rang out:'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him! '
7 "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out. '
9 "'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves. '
10 "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 "Later the others also came. 'Lord, Lord,' they said, 'open the door for us! '
12 "But he replied, 'Truly I tell you, I don't know you. '
13 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Those five foolish "virgins" were Christians.

You're proving OSAS is false by using a parable? That's like proving soul sleep is false by using Luke 16:19-31. Once you believe you have eternal life. It is very simple John 6:47.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

If you take the mark of the beast so as to buy something during the Great Tribulation, you will lose your soul for all eternity.

OSAS fails when it falls on the tip of Rev 14:9-11.

That is a fact.

If that is too strong for you, you might be better suited to drinking milk and leaving eschatology alone.

 

[ATP]

If you take the mark of the beast so as to buy something during the Great Tribulation, you will lose your soul for all eternity.

OSAS fails when it falls on the tip of Rev 14:9-11.

That is a fact.

If that is too strong for you, you might be better suited to drinking milk and leaving eschatology alone.

And nonbelievers who aren't covered in the blood of Jesus will either receive the mark or come to faith and be beheaded. Is that too strong for you?

 

[ATP]

You don't believe God's testimony Marcus?

1 John 5:9-14 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

Rev 12:11 NIV They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

Rev 20:4 NIV I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[ATP]

If that is too strong for you, you might be better suited to drinking milk and leaving eschatology alone.

People been arguing over end time chronology for how long now. You have figured out nothing.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

You don't believe God's testimony Marcus?

What kind of question is that ATP? Don't act ridiculous.

What you're missing is faith is like the spreading of the seed. While everything is true that you put up for eternal salvation, it is only for those in whom it grows deep.

For some, it's snatched away as soon as it's flung.
For others, it blossoms quickly, but soon withers.
For others yet, it takes root but becomes choked off by the cares of this world.
Only for the last group, in which it grows and becomes fruitful, does the Word bring life.

Now as for the Elect: NONE of them will fail the test and try to save their life by worshiping the abomination.
This is by definition because only the Elect actually make it to Heaven.

Now for the greater Christian population, not all who profess Jesus are in the last category of seed.
The warning is to all so as to not become like the five foolish virgins.

If you don't take heed at what I am saying, who knows? Maybe you will discount what will happen before you when the prophecy becomes reality, and like many, you will just say 'I have Jesus in my heart and once saved is always saved,' and then you will foolishly take the mark thinking you're obeying Scripture by heeding man's laws - and you WILL suffer God's Wrath.

So OSAS doesn't work for such a person.
Because the Elect are fruitful, persevere, and endure patiently, giving up their life in faith and as a testimony to Jesus: OSAS is always going to be true.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

People been arguing over end time chronology for how long now. You have figured out nothing.

Ha!

 

[ATP]

What kind of question is that ATP? Don't act ridiculous.

What you're missing is faith is like the spreading of the seed. While everything is true that you put up for eternal salvation, it is only for those in whom it grows deep.

For some, it's snatched away as soon as it's flung.
For others, it blossoms quickly, but soon withers.
For others yet, it takes root but becomes choked off by the cares of this world.
Only for the last group, in which it grows and becomes fruitful, does the Word bring life.

Now as for the Elect: NONE of them will fail the test and try to save their life by worshiping the abomination.
This is by definition because only the Elect actually make it to Heaven.

Now for the greater Christian population, not all who profess Jesus are in the last category of seed.
The warning is to all so as to not become like the five foolish virgins.

If you don't take heed at what I am saying, who knows? Maybe you will discount what will happen before you when the prophecy becomes reality, and like many, you will just say 'I have Jesus in my heart and once saved is always saved,' and then you will foolishly take the mark thinking you're obeying Scripture by heeding man's laws - and you WILL suffer God's Wrath.

So OSAS doesn't work for such a person.
Because the Elect are fruitful, persevere, and endure patiently, giving up their life in faith and as a testimony to Jesus: OSAS is always going to be true.

Notice it says God is the one that gives us eternal life, not us. What will it take for you to trash works based salvation...............

We know we have eternal, and we can be confident before God..........

1 John 5:9-14 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

And nonbelievers who aren't covered in the blood of Jesus will either receive the mark or come to faith and be beheaded. Is that too strong for you?

This sentence doesn't make sense Biblically from an eschatological standpoint.

Nonbelievers = not covered by the blood of Jesus - okay, now that you defined who you're speaking about, yes, nonbelievers are not covered in the blood of Jesus.
Either:
1. Receive the mark
2. Come to faith
AND be beheaded.

Well it's one or the other because YOU put "OR" in there.
The Bible says that anyone who receives the mark will die eternally.
The one who comes to faith and is beheaded because they pass the test of worship by not worshiping the abomination - they are martyrs under the fifth Seal and will live.

You don't get to mix the two together.
The Bible doesn't say you get a mixed bag of tricks.

If you want to invalidate what the Bible says, you may do so at your own risk.

Too strong for me? No, too foolish.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

What will it take for you to trash works based salvation...............

EXCUSE ME! Where do YOU get off changing my salvation theology?

 

[ATP]

This sentence doesn't make sense Biblically from an eschatological standpoint.

Nonbelievers = not covered by the blood of Jesus - okay, now that you defined who you're speaking about, yes, nonbelievers are not covered in the blood of Jesus.
Either:
1. Receive the mark
2. Come to faith
AND be beheaded.

The Bible says that anyone who receives the mark will die eternally.
It doesn't say you get a mixed bag of tricks.

If you want to invalidate what the Bible says, you may do so at your own risk.

Too strong for me? No, too foolish.

The testimony of God specifically says we have eternal life through His Son. This is the testimony christians are dying for in Rev 20:4. It cannot be more clear.

 

[ATP]

EXCUSE ME! Where do YOU get off changing my salvation theology?

You believe christians can lose their salvation and be thrown into the lake of fire. FAALLSE.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

The testimony of God specifically says we have eternal life through His Son. This is the testimony christians are dying for in Rev 20:4. It cannot be more clear.

Anytime someone says something is clear - I know they're blowing smoke.