3d/3n is NOT an idiom!

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The prophecy of 3 days and 3 nights has to do when he was in the heart of the earth. I believe that refers to his body in the grave (tomb) because he refers to the resurrection of his physical body.

Yes, '~The prophecy of 3 days and 3 nights has to do when he was in the heart of the earth.~' So do also I believe, thank God. But '~The prophecy of 3 days and 3 nights when he was in the heart of the earth~' does not refer '~to his body in the grave (tomb)~', for several reasons.

None of the words, '~his body in the grave (tomb)~ exists in Matthew 12:40. But it is written there "the Son of Man shall be...". His body was dead and passive; the Son of Man was alive and active. His body was in the grave for but 24 hours long "mid-afternoon daylight being the Sabbath nearing" Luke 23:54 until "mid-afternoon daylight being the First Day of the week nearing" Matthew 28:1.
So the Son of Man alive, conscious, willing, obediently and TRIUMPHANTLY actively CONQUERED "three days and three nights in the HEART of the earth".

Now read Hosea 6:1,2, "The LORD hath torn that He will heal Us; He hath smitten that He will bind Us that after two days He will revive Us, that in the third day He will raise Us up that in Full Sight and Fellowship We shall LIVE."

"In anguish and anxiety of SOUL TO DEATH EXCEEDING" one day actively having SUFFERED death being "torn" and "smitten" in TRIUMPH DYING death the death of death, and "after two days" passively having been IN death on the cross and beyond the cross in the grave, for the Son of Man were the "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" of the "three days utter darkness" of the Passover of Yahweh. Not in the grave in the earth!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Now for the first time I also am seeing the correct meaning of “after two days He will revive us, and in the third day He will raise us”.

At first I interpreted “after two days” like I interpreted “after three days”, namely, as idiom, not literal.

Then for some time I changed my mind concerning Hosea 6:1,2, and interpreted “after two days” literally, counting the first two days of the three days, together, “after” which “two days” the following day would be, literally, the third day.

But now I see that, no, “after two days” is idiomatic in Hosea 6 as well!

The first day of the three days of the Passover of Yahweh was the ONE day that Jesus suffered ALIVE and active, then, “after two days” of passive “passing through”, “after two days” technically or effectively was “on the third day”, because after the first day of Jesus' active Suffering and Death, on the second day of his passive Suffering or "going through" remaining, his Resurrection, idiomatically or by way of speaking, came “after two days” and thus without saying “on the third day” of the “three days”, or, retrospectively, on the last of the “three days and three nights”.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn
Hosea 6:1,2
ONE day Jesus suffered and DIED;
“After two days” He WAS BURIED,
“Christ the third day ROSE”.
active-passive-active

Or,

1Corinthians 15:3,4
TWO days Jesus SUFFERED and DIED, and, was BURIED,
“and according to the Scriptures the third day, ROSE”.
active, passive, active

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Correct….Jesus Christ was crucified and died about the ninth hour (around our 3pm in the afternoon) Wednesday the 14th of Nisan….. He was entombed sometime before sunset …. and that, according to the Word is when we start our count. Not from the time of death, but from the time of burial.

Re:
'~Jesus Christ was crucified and died about the ninth hour (around our 3pm in the afternoon)...~'

Correct. Why correct? Because it stands written
Mark 15:33b
Καὶ γενομένης ὥρας ἕκτης σκότος ἐγένετο ἐφ’ ὅλην τὴν γῆν ἕως ὥρας ἐνάτης.
And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
Matthew 27:45
Ἀπὸ δὲ ἕκτης ὥρας σκότος ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν γῆν ἕως ὥρας ἐνάτης.
Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
Luke 23:44,45 [Gn1:2 Ps91:1 Ex40:3; 10:21,22 Jnl2:10,17]
Καὶ ἦν ἤδη ὡσεὶ ὥρα ἕκτη καὶ σκότος ἐγένετο ἐφ’ ὅλην τὴν γῆν ἕως ὥρας ἐνάτης
And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 [Ex.26:6-14; 30-36; 30:6; 31:7; 40:19-21,28,34,38]
τοῦ ἡλίου ἐκλιπόντος, ἐσχίσθη δὲ τὸ καταπέτασμα τοῦ ναοῦ μέσον.
And the sun was darkened and the veil of the temple was rent in the middle.

Re:
'~Jesus Christ was crucified and died ... Wednesday the 14th of Nisan…..~'

Incorrect, untrue, not implied, not WRITTEN!

Re:
'~He was entombed sometime before sunset ….~'

Correct. Why correct? Because it stands written
Luke 23:54 [Exodus 12:17 et al]
(Ἦν δὲ ἡ ἡμέρα πρὸ σαββάτου) Παρασκευῆς, καὶ σάββατον ἐπέφωσκεν
That Day was the Preparation and the Sabbath drew on.
56 ὑποστρέψασαι
And they returned [home cf. Jn19:27; 20:10]
δὲ ἡτοίμασαν ἀρώματα καὶ μύρα.
and prepared spices and ointments,
John 19:42b
… διὰ τὴν Παρασκευὴν τῶν Ἰουδαίων …
... because of the Jews’ preparation ...

But that's not all!
In between occurred Mark 15:42-47 Matthew 27:57-61 John 19:31-42 Luke 23:50-56a and, Luke 23:48,49!
Therefore, that Jesus '~was entombed sometime before sunset….on Wednesday the 14th of Nisan~' is incorrect, untrue, and not implied nor WRITTEN, but contradicts and mutilates Scripture and Truth!

Re:
'~... and that, according to the Word is when we start our count. Not from the time of death, but from the time of burial~' is ONGOING incorrect, untrue, not implied, not WRITTEN, contradicting and mutilating Scripture and Truth untruth!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The 15th of Nisan (Thursday) which began at sunset was Passover, a high day or special Sabbath.

No Scripture, against Scripture, contradicting Scripture senseless illogical substanceless misconception.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Those who adhere to the idiom illogic and the traditional religious teaching of Good Friday through Sunday … are still coming up short, by a night…. It doesn’t fit, no matter how they try to force it.

Those who adhere to the Armstrong illogic and the fancied religious teaching of Wednesday crucifixion through or after the Sabbath on Sunday resurrection are coming up far short, by a night and two daylights in excess…. It doesn’t fit, no matter how they try to force it.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

God raised Jesus Christ was from the dead three days and three nights (72 hours) later …..sometime before sunset on Saturday the 17th of Nissan, which was the weekly Sabbath.

No Scripture, against Scripture, contradicting Scripture senseless illogical substanceless misconception.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

When you correlate the scripture in the gospels regarding the crucifixion it totally substantiates the time period of 72 hours.

What does your '~time period of 72 hours~' consist of, is the important question.

 

[rstrats]

FHII,
re: " I believe he died 3 pm Wednesday. He was buried before 6 pm Wednesday. He resurrected between 3 - 6 pm Saturday..."

But that would mean that parts of 4 daytimes were involved with His stay in the tomb.

 

[rstrats]

Enoch111,
re: "... it was the 18th of Nisan -- the first day of the week -- when Christ arose. This also corresponds to Christ being called "the First Fruits of them that slept" (1 Cor 15:20,23), since the sheaf of first fruits (representing Christ) was waved on 'the morrow AFTER the sabbath'."

I'm not sure that "first fruits' can really be used as absolute proof of a 1st day of the week resurrection. Assuming the sabbath being referred to in Leviticus 23:11 is the weekly Sabbath, then the only requirement with regard to the "morrow after the Sabbath, i.e., the first day of the week, was when the sheaf was to be presented to the Lord. The Messiah didn't present Himself to His Father until sometime after His resurrection. So when did the Messiah actually become the first fruits - the moment He resurrected or when He presented to the Lord? If it was at the moment of resurrection, then Leviticus by itself doesn't preclude a seventh day resurrection.

 

[Enoch111]

If it was at the moment of resurrection, then Leviticus by itself doesn't preclude a seventh day resurrection.

Even so, the fact that "the Lord's Day" is stated as being significant (Rev 1:10) -- not to be confused with the Day of the LORD -- then that pretty much establishes the day of resurrection as the first day of the week. Please see John Gill's discussion on Rev 1:10.

 

[FHII]

FHII,
re: " I believe he died 3 pm Wednesday. He was buried before 6 pm Wednesday. He resurrected between 3 - 6 pm Saturday..."

But that would mean that parts of 4 daytimes were involved with His stay in the tomb.

Yes... So?

Please refer to post #2 of this thread. 3 days and 3 nights is not an idiom; it means 72 hours.

When we are talking about fasting, it works out cleanly because fasts begin at the stting of the sun. So a 3 day and night fast will be bothe 3 days and nights perfectly as well as be 772 hours.

Jesus didn't die at sunset, nor is it likely that his burial was completed exactly at sunset. He rose 72 hours later.

Remember what is and is not an idiom. Just because 4 portions of daylight are included does not make it 3 days and 3 nights according to Jewish custom ACCORDING to to Rabbi I quoted.

By rhe way, I said it was unlikely that hia burial was completed exactly at sunset, but it is entirely possible. So if you want to push the issue we can.

Lastly, a Friday to Sunday scenerio is at best 2 portions of a day and 2 portions of a night.

 

[FHII]

Enoch111,
re: "... it was the 18th of Nisan -- the first day of the week -- when Christ arose. This also corresponds to Christ being called "the First Fruits of them that slept" (1 Cor 15:20,23), since the sheaf of first fruits (representing Christ) was waved on 'the morrow AFTER the sabbath'."

I'm not sure that "first fruits' can really be used as absolute proof of a 1st day of the week resurrection. Assuming the sabbath being referred to in Leviticus 23:11 is the weekly Sabbath, then the only requirement with regard to the "morrow after the Sabbath, i.e., the first day of the week, was when the sheaf was to be presented to the Lord. The Messiah didn't present Himself to His Father until sometime after His resurrection. So when did the Messiah actually become the first fruits - the moment He resurrected or when He presented to the Lord? If it was at the moment of resurrection, then Leviticus by itself doesn't preclude a seventh day resurrection.

While I appreciate the discussion, I am not impressed with the reasoning behind Lev 23 as proof of Jesus ressurecting on Sunday.

Yes, Jesus is the first fruits... But who sheathed it and waved it? The priest. When did the priests do that with Jesus?

Second, after waving it, what did they do with the firstfruits? They burnt it as a sacrifice.

Jesus wasn't sacrificed on Sunday. I believe he was sacrificed on Wednesday. Some say Thursday and most say Friday. But no one ever says it was after the ressurrection.

 

[rstrats]

Enoch111,
re: "Even so, the fact that 'the Lord's Day' is stated as being significant (Rev 1:10) -- not to be confused with the Day of the LORD -- then that pretty much establishes the day of resurrection as the first day of the week."

I'm not suggesting that the resurrection didn't take place on the 1st day of the week - I think the better case can be made that it did. I'm merely pointing out that first fruits is not a good example for supporting a 1st day of the week resurrection.

 

[rstrats]

FHII,
re: "Yes... So?"

So the Messiah only said that 3 daytimes would be involved.

 

[FHII]

FHII,
re: "Yes... So?"

So the Messiah only said that 3 daytimes would be involved.

He said 3 days and 3 nights. He did not say "3 daytimes". As the Rabbi explained, that means 72 hours.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Enoch111,
re: "... it was the 18th of Nisan -- the first day of the week -- when Christ arose. This also corresponds to Christ being called "the First Fruits of them that slept" (1 Cor 15:20,23), since the sheaf of first fruits (representing Christ) was waved on 'the morrow AFTER the sabbath'."
I'm not sure that "first fruits' can really be used as absolute proof of a 1st day of the week resurrection. Assuming the sabbath being referred to in Leviticus 23:11 is the weekly Sabbath, then the only requirement with regard to the "morrow after the Sabbath, i.e., the first day of the week, was when the sheaf was to be presented to the Lord. The Messiah didn't present Himself to His Father until sometime after His resurrection. So when did the Messiah actually become the first fruits - the moment He resurrected or when He presented to the Lord? If it was at the moment of resurrection, then Leviticus by itself doesn't preclude a seventh day resurrection

First, it's not ''~"first fruits'~'; it's "first sheaf of firstfruits of (winter) harvest".

And it cannot at all be used as any '~proof of a 1st day of the week resurrection~' because, not '~assuming~' but for certain knowing that '~the sabbath being referred to in Leviticus 23:11~' is or was the "feast" or "sabbath IN ITS SEASON" of the yearly passover, the '~only requirement with regard to...~' "the day after the sabbath" was not '~the first day of the week~', but any day of the week '~when the sheaf was to be presented to the Lord~': Because it was the "feast ... sabbath ... in / to its SEASON". The Messiah though did not as you presume, '~present Himself to His Father until sometime after His resurrection~' but immediately with, in, through and by his Resurrection in the grave from the dead in the Presence and Full Fellowship of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit: "ON THE SABBATH BEFORE the First Day of the week".

'~So when did the Messiah actually become the first fruits - the moment He resurrected or when He presented to the Lord?~'

At the moment of resurrection '~when He presented to the Lord~'! Ephesians 1:19,20

And therefore yes, '~Leviticus by itself doesn't preclude a seventh day resurrection~'. But Jesus' Resurrection "SABBATH'S" was pre-eminent and anticipated by and throughout “all the Scriptures”.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Even so, the fact that "the Lord's Day" is stated as being significant (Rev 1:10) -- not to be confused with the Day of the LORD -- then that pretty much establishes the day of resurrection as the first day of the week. Please see John Gill's discussion on Rev 1:10.

That '~the fact that "the Lord's Day" is stated as being significant (Rev 1:10) ... establishes the day of resurrection as the first day of the week~' is wishful praying which '~establishes~" nothing at all.

And John Gill is just another proof-case that when Sunday worship comes under scrutiny the best of God-fearing men desperately hoping that it will save them face, get arrogantly provocative and defiant.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

He said 3 days and 3 nights. He did not say "3 daytimes". As the Rabbi explained, that means 72 hours.

Yes; but as the Scriptures say and through and through explain, '~3 days and 3 nights~' meant THE "three days thick darkness" of "the plague" which "was upon Him" "for us" to forgive us our sins.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Yes, Jesus is the first fruits... But who sheathed it and waved it? The priest. When did the priests do that with Jesus?

What was '~sheathed it~'?

'~Who waved it ... the first fruits?~'

Yes, '~The priest~' did. Who was the Priest? Christ Jesus, King Priest and Prophet, Sacrifice sacrificed, Flesh eaten and First Sheaf waved before the LORD.

'~When did the priests do that with Jesus?~'
Of course, never! Instead, "GOD RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD"!