7 Common Errors of Interpretation for Chapters 4-6 of Revelation

[Ronald Nolette]

The seals are not opened. John saw a vision of the seals. When they are opened, the events will occur. This is just common sense. Just like the trumpets and bowls of wrath are a vision of future events. When the trumpets are blown, the events of the trumpets will occur. You should learn the difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. They are not the same.

You have the Church going through the wrath of God which is unscriptural.

1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

No scriptural support for this. It's in error. The Antichrist dies before the great tribulation.

No the antichchrist is defeated by Jesus when He returns. He is called the beast and the beast and false prophet are cast alive into teh lake of fire!

 

[The Light]

No the antichchrist is defeated by Jesus when He returns. He is called the beast and the beast and false prophet are cast alive into teh lake of fire!

I know that 99.9999999999999999999999% of people believe that. However, the beast that is cast into the lake of fire is the beast of the sea and not the antichrist. The Antichrist dies before the great tribulation. The antichrist is the rider on the white horse.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I know that 99.9999999999999999999999% of people believe that. However, the beast that is cast into the lake of fire is the beast of the sea and not the antichrist. The Antichrist dies before the great tribulation. The antichrist is the rider on the white horse.

Actually those that believe that are far fewer. The beast of the sea is THE Antichrist, the eleventh horn of Daniel, the one who overthrows three of the ten kings, as well as the rider of the white horse. that rider is the king who goes conquering. And who does He conquer? the three fo the ten kings and the other 7 give their allegiance to him, Just as in Daniel.

The fourth beast (kingdom) is the amalgamation of the powers of the first three gentile kingdoms and started with Rome and has been continuing since in another of its prophesied forms, the two legs of Daniels statue.

Next will come the one world govt. phase, then th eten kings/ten horns/ten toes phase, and culminates with the antichrist ruling th eworld with and over the kings.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

No the antichchrist is defeated by Jesus when He returns. He is called the beast and the beast and false prophet are cast alive into teh lake of fire!

Meaning they are not allowed to rest for the 1000 years in the grave like the rest of the wicked whose 2nd Resurrection (of the dead) happen after the 1000 years.

Dan. 7:11 states be Beast is killed, his BODY DESTROYED, and then he is cast into the fire.

Whenever we have contradictions, there is a reason, God never contradicts Himself.

All men must die then be judged. Our Spiritual man never dies in reality.

 

[ewq1938]

I know what you mean, but we are born immortal, we either live it with God or with Satan.

True. No one has ever died and that's the real reason the Earth is overpopulated and all the body heat from immortal humans are causing global warming. What I don't understand is where all my "dead" relatives are hiding since I don't see them anymore, but being born immortal I know they aren't buried in graves or anything. I think they all live in South America.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

True. No one has ever died and that's the real reason the Earth is overpopulated and all the body heat from immortal humans are causing global warming. What I don't understand is where all my "dead" relatives are hiding since I don't see them anymore, but being born immortal I know they aren't buried in graves or anything. I think they all live in South America.

Our souls or spirit body never die, when God created us in HIS IMAGE that is what it meant.

 

[The Light]

The beast of the sea is THE Antichrist, the eleventh horn of Daniel, the one who overthrows three of the ten kings, as well as the rider of the white horse.

I used to think this until ewq1938 pointed out that it is the beast of the earth and not the beast of the sea that is THE Antichrist. It is the beast of the earth that is the rider on the white horse.

The beast of the sea was and is not and yet is. He is the eighth king and is of the 7.

The Antichrist, the beast of the earth will be dead sometime during the great tribulation which means he will be dead before the 6th seal.

Daniel 11
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Timtofly]

Our souls or spirit body never die, when God created us in HIS IMAGE that is what it meant.

Why do you all not see in 2 Corinthians 5:1, that God according to Paul has that permanent incorruptible physical body ready when the soul enters Paradise. It is not that a body of spirit was waiting for millennia. God can put your soul into a permanent incorruptible physical body just as fast as God can remove that soul from Adam's temporal corruptible physical body. It is not rocket science developed by humans. God spoke creation into existence. Surely all this human theology is complicating a rather simple principle.

Our soul and spirit will never be physical. Our spirit is spiritual from God. Our body is physical from God. That does not change just because Paradise is where the church is when not on earth.

In this life we have Adam's dead flesh. In Paradise we have God's living flesh. Jesus is still physically Jesus.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Meaning they are not allowed to rest for the 1000 years in the grave like the rest of the wicked whose 2nd Resurrection (of the dead) happen after the 1000 years.

Dan. 7:11 states be Beast is killed, his BODY DESTROYED, and then he is cast into the fire.

Whenever we have contradictions, there is a reason, God never contradicts Himself.

All men must die then be judged. Our Spiritual man never dies in reality.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

You must remember that teh antichrist is just like the creatures of REv. 6. He is the son of a woman and satan himself.

He is the seed of the serpent in Gen. 3

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I used to think this until ewq1938 pointed out that it is the beast of the earth and not the beast of the sea that is THE Antichrist. It is the beast of the earth that is the rider on the white horse.

The beast of the sea was and is not and yet is. He is the eighth king and is of the 7.

The Antichrist, the beast of the earth will be dead sometime during the great tribulation which means he will be dead before the 6th seal.

Daniel 11
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Thye beast of the earth is the false prophet.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

the beast of the earth causes all to worship the beast of the sea which is the antichrist.

The beast of the sea is the counterfeit son (antichrist). the dragon gives him all his authority as the Father gave Jesus all His authority.

The beast of teh sea is the counterfeit Holy Spirit. He leads people to worship the counterfeit son, seals the worshippers with a mark as the Spirit does with the believers of the true son. the earth beast orders all to wear the mark of the sea beast.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

You must remember that teh antichrist is just like the creatures of REv. 6. He is the son of a woman and satan himself.

He is the seed of the serpent in Gen. 3

You missed the original reply, in which I say contradictions can never be accepted, because God never changes and never contradicts Himself. So we have to figure out why THIS & THIS differs.

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake(The Little Horn is a man): I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So, we can not just say, oh well, we cant figure everything out, God just contradicts Himself here or the writers got something wrong. NO......God makes no mistakes. We have to wrestle with God for the answers, and He will always give them.

So, one clearly say HIS BODY is DESTROYED that means he dies. Dan. 11:36 says he comes to his end. Paul says elsewhere he will be consumed by the presence of Jesus' coming. So, why does John wrote he is cast alive straight away into hell? Because he is, our Spiritual body looks IDENTICAL to our physical body. When this man is killed, the angels take him and the False Prophet and cast them into hell, they aee never allowed to rest for the 1000 years, well John is seeing a vision, so they are no doubt trying to keep from being cast into hell, as spiritual beings, but not as human beings.

The only way both can be true is Rev. 19:20 is speaking about a Spiritual being not in s state of rest, or comatose, but alive.

 

[covenantee]

Daniel 7
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Ten horns (kingdoms) which arose out of the fourth beast/kingdom of the Roman empire, and their first or early kings:

Heruli - Anthyrius I
Suevi - Hermeric
Burgundians - Gjúki
Huns - Attila
Ostrogoths - Theodoric
Visigoths - Alaric I
Vandals - Genseric
Lombards - Lethuc
Franks - Ascaric
Anglo-Saxons - Alfred the Great

Little horn (kingdom) and king: The Roman papacy, governed by pope Gelasius I when the first of the three kings in Daniel 7:8,20,24, Odoacer of the Heruli, was overthrown in 493.

The three kings overthrown ("subdued"): Odoacer of the Heruli in 493, Gelimer of the Vandals in 534, Teia of the Ostrogoths in 553.

These horns/beasts/kings/kingdoms were subsequently recognized as the early prophetic precedents and fulfillments leading to the eventual Protestant Reformation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You missed the original reply, in which I say contradictions can never be accepted, because God never changes and never contradicts Himself. So we have to figure out why THIS & THIS differs.

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake(The Little Horn is a man): I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So, we can not just say, oh well, we cant figure everything out, God just contradicts Himself here or the writers got something wrong. NO......God makes no mistakes. We have to wrestle with God for the answers, and He will always give them.

So, one clearly say HIS BODY is DESTROYED that means he dies. Dan. 11:36 says he comes to his end. Paul says elsewhere he will be consumed by the presence of Jesus' coming. So, why does John wrote he is cast alive straight away into hell? Because he is, our Spiritual body looks IDENTICAL to our physical body. When this man is killed, the angels take him and the False Prophet and cast them into hell, they aee never allowed to rest for the 1000 years, well John is seeing a vision, so they are no doubt trying to keep from being cast into hell, as spiritual beings, but not as human beings.

The only way both can be true is Rev. 19:20 is speaking about a Spiritual being not in s state of rest, or comatose, but alive.

Your concluding line is based on your own rational. It does not mean so.

The Bible never contradicts itself. When it "apparently does" it is our understanding that is contrradictory and not the bible.

Being cast alive into the lake of fire would slay a body, but his soul and spirit remain alive until the great white throne judgment when he is resurrected, given an immortal body and cast back. that is also one explanation that explains both.

But the beast of Rev 19 is most defintely a man! there is too much SCripture calling hima man to deny it.

 

[Jay Ross]

hello,

If God made man in His image, the question becomes were the Heavenly Hosts/Angels also made in God's image? If so, would John been able to discern the difference?

In Rev 16:12-16 John described the three planes of 9/11 as "three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.", and yet the signs and wonders done on the day of the 9/11 event were seen right around the world in peoples living rooms where the peoples' TVs lived and many cheered because of what was occurring in the USA as they watched live.

John described the planes of the 9/11 event as frogs because the planes looked like frogs flying through the air when they jumped looking at the frogs from beneath.

So, if we say that the beast is a man based on how John described the beast based on his understanding of what he saw looked like a man, can we assume that John had described the beast as a man whereas John was describing what he saw and the beast looked like a man to him.

Now Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth are judged and then imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for many days, i.e., for 1,000 years to be precise, and in the Book of Revelation we are told that the kings of the earth rose from out of the Bottomless pit first and then the Heavenly Hosts rose out of the pit and exercise their dominion during the little while period after the summer harvest season had passed. John described what he thought he saw, but the reality is that the beast and the False Prophet, i.e., the Little Horn, are judged heavenly hosts.

If we make the Beasts and the Little Horn of Daniel 7 to be human and not Heavenly hosts, then our understanding of the beasts mentioned in the scriptures is flawed and we go down rabbit holes that lead us astray.

But the experts on this forum, based on the "experts" alive in the distant past, still go down this same rabbit hole and lead many astray.

Shalom

 

[ewq1938]

But the experts on this forum, based on the "experts" alive in the distant past, still go down this same rabbit hole and lead many astray.

A "frog hole" isn't any better.

"John described the planes of the 9/11 event as frogs because the planes looked like frogs"

John did not describe anything that took place on 9/11. Frogs in Rev are not planes.

 

[Jay Ross]

A "frog hole" isn't any better.

"John described the planes of the 9/11 event as frogs because the planes looked like frogs"

John did not describe anything that took place on 9/11. Frogs in Rev are not planes.

So, if you live 2,000 years back, and you saw a plane in a vision, how would you describe it?

 

[ewq1938]

So, if you live 2,000 years back, and you saw a plane in a vision, how would you describe it?

A bird of course. No one will see a plane and think, "That looks just like a frog!"

 

[Jay Ross]

A bird of course. No one will see a plane and think, "That looks just like a frog!"

Seems like you have never observed a frog jumping through the air. When the frog is jumping through the air it more closely resembles a commercial passenger plane than a bird does when it is flying. A bird's silhouette while flying high overhead looks nothing like a commercial passenger plane.

Have another guess.

 

[ewq1938]

Seems like you have never observed a frog jumping through the air. When the frog is jumping through the air it more closely resembles a commercial passenger plane than a bird does when it is flying.

I can't believe it but you are right! A jumping frog looks exactly like a passenger plane!

 

[Jay Ross]

I can't believe it but you are right! A jumping frog looks exactly like a passenger plane!

Thank you for taking the time to look at some pictures of a frog and seeing the similarities.

In pictures of a frog jumping that I have seen the front arms are stretched out wide and the legs are stretched out together with the feet turned sideways so that silhouette of the frog jumping looks very similar to a commercial plane flying overhead.

Previously your stated: -

John did not describe anything that took place on 9/11.

But this is what Revelations 16:13-14 states: -

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

The 9/11 event saw the frogs/planes performing sign signs which go out to the kings of the earth to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty at Armageddon. Also, these frogs/planes performing signs went out to be seen by the whole earth as they were unfolding live on their television sets in their lounge rooms. The whole earth virtually stopped to watch the events unfolding on that day. Some of my friends in Nepal who I have spoken to after the 9/11 events were cheering the terrorists on as they crashed the planes into the twin towers in NY and as the towers collapsed. They also confessed that their wives chastised them for their glee because they saw the horrors of the lives lost in the unprovoked attack on the USA.

However, the demons in the planes were attacking the three idol pillars that the western/Christian world worships. Money as represented in the Twin Towers and power as represented in the Pentagon where the "pillar goes "deep" into the ground.

In the Biblical record, God is recorded as often sent a warning a number of years before He would come and judge Israel.

This warning/call to repent was sent to the kings of the earth because they had allowed the Little Horn to use their armies to enable the Little Horn to trample God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts. Today there is little evidence of the Kings of the earth taking part in trampling God's sanctuary in Jerusalem as it has laid devastated for close on 2,000 years. However, today, there is evidence of God's earthly Hosts, the Israelites, being trampled continually since 70 A.D., by the Gentile armies of their kings. This warning has been given to the gentile kings and will occur some 40 or so years after the 9/11 event.

The initial response of many nations after the 9/11 event was for them to gather together to go after the terrorists and the nations that supported time them in their actions. The events of the nations' gathering to invade Babylon, is also recorded in Jeremiah 50-51.

The kings of the earth will be gathered together to go against the nation of Israel around 20 years from now as the last defiant action of the Little Horn at the end of the Daniel 8 prophecy's time period of 2,300 years.

How is this relevant to our interpretation for chapter 4-6 of the Book of Revelation?

It is relevant because the seals, trumpets and bowl judgements all overlap each other, and the Sixth Bowl Judgement takes place when the Son of Man is given dominion over the peoples of the earth.

Shalom